everybody on ilx complains about reddit

Because PUA culture promotes a load of horrible shit that's already there in your head if you're a man?

I can totally see myself thinking along the lines of 'I am owed' whatever, 'I need to use whatever trick', but then I can also see myself getting to the point where I'd, I don't know, physically attack an enemy, the point is not doing it and not getting into a culture that unlocks shitty potential

*re: relationships

case closed

hey now no need to be essentialist

nobody has the potential for this shit, it's all acquired, no need to give yourself a crutch

the point is to learn how to think about yourself and others completely differently, with communication honesty and respect in the mix and maybe see a therapist.

I meant 'see myself' in quite a distant sense there

Notion of X service meriting Y sexual response/X social, linguistic 'signal' having Y significance, and this signification being static, is still totally weird

thing about the "friendzone" is that it's usually the result of a creepy manipulative guy not making his intentions clear and this not having to face the consequences of those intentions. It's like when people go on "dates" without either being sure it's a date. Plausible deniability.

reddit (and other for-profit media linking sites) are based on that kind of exchange so it isn't too surprising to see these weird communities finding a home there.

http://terrordaves.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/poltergeist-tree.jpg

/feel like oh so scandalized reactions to pua culture from men are always a little the lady doth protest too much/

naw it is really shockingly terrible, like ive done some manipulative shit before but I had to rely on my own dark instincts

its the whole message board science aspect that really takes it to the next level

lag∞n otm. Also I know people who have attended 'workshops' and 'conferences'

I'm reading The Game - it's interesting how often he veers close to admitting that these are just the saddest losers ever and that for all the "pickup artist magic" they're seemingly only sleeping with 1% of the women whose numbers they even get.

That implies they're getting at least 100 numbers? Calling bs on that one, pal.

100 total across the entire community

Not that the guy being in love, or 'in love', or whatever, would suddenly make everything okay. It's more the complete absence of emotion in the 'friendzone' discourse adding an extra level of awful

The great irony is that guys who complain about "friendzones" are the people who would gain the most from having more platonic female friends.

Besides, what is a boyfriend but the greatest, most ultimate kind of friend? King of the Friends, the Chairmen of the Friendzone Board.

Friend Sinatra

Friendz Ferdinand

guys who complain about "friendzones" are the people who would gain the most from chemical castration

What about those poor kids with crushes that just can't seem to get her to feel the same back? Seriously though the term is usually wielded by the scumbags, not those people.

is indeed*

there is basically this thing when you're 14 or whatever and have no idea how to interact with people and you don't understand what it even means to ask somebody out, and the unrequited crush and the unreciprocated affection, and on the other hand, with people who are also 14 and the recipient of that sort of thing and don't know how to firmly reject it because really nobody knows fuck-all at that age, and the advice from tv isn't very good, and shit is confusing regardless.

but then ten years later if you haven't learned something and figured some of that out, it's a whole different thing.

and huuge difference too beween the teenage one-true-love romantic nonsense and then figuring out how to interact with others in more direct and honest (and also less vulnerable ways) and on the other hand just going out and attempting to stick your bits in anything that moves.

the creepy part is really the way interactions with other people are gamified or whatever and stuck with these bizarre terms and dissected until there's basically no actual element of human connection left.

yeah it's really the same (often creepy) neediness of the type of guy who thinks profusely telling women how hot/beautiful they are is all they need to do to get that woman to like them back---just reversed to a "neg." it's a projection from a void into a void in either case.

I think it has to do more w unrequited crushing than whatever you guys are focusing on. I don't think the source of it is novel in any way, just that hormonally-insane bros in the '70s and '80s simply didn't have a platform to instantly and awkwardly communicate their angst w the rest of the world.

Like, a hundred years ago some dude would write a poem about his unrequited love in flowery prose, now he posts a meme on reddit.

reddit is optimized for void to void gamification just in how the site is designed.
i doubt most of these people are as horrible off-reddit.

it's capitalism, man

― 乒乓, Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:27 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://iblamecapitalism.tumblr.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgsHV9FEJdU

When I was a teen I was totally into my best friend but nothing ever happened despite some real agonizing and then later I found out she had had a big crush on ME but I was too stupid to see it... I had friendzoned HER

a mutual friendzoning?!

that's the thing! i don't deny that there's some sort of real "friend zone", like of course certain people are turned off by the prospect of dating people they're already close to. but if gender roles didn't socialize us to think that men are predators and women are prey and women actually pursued men as often as vice versa, all these dudes would realize that they probably have female friends they'd reject straight away bc they aren't attracted to them

(they would also be forced to realize that "i don't want to ruin our friendship" is a much easier thing to say than "i'm not attracted to you")

http://teabelly.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/somekind.jpg

is that from the eric stoltz footage of back to the future?

a mutual friendzoning?!

― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, February 24, 2013 1:18 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

basically. mutually assured friendzonetion.

classic

i think "the friendzone" can only be understood in context of "nice guy syndrome"

i.e. i'm a nice guy, i'm too nice, i just want to treat a woman like a queen, but women don't want that, they just fall for asshole jerks who treat them bad and hurt them, but i would never do that

idt we have to treat every one of these dudes as morally reprehensible, sometimes shy dudes are just bad at talking to girls and are often more self-hating than they are I-blame-society-lets-make-jpgs

how dare u

back to the reeducation camps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qGqaRk3D5E

I was a very shy dude as a kid and never would have thought to blame society had I not heard the Bill Hicks song "Chicks Dig Jerks" at a young and impressionable age. I definitely was one of these "nice guys" in my teens.

Trouble with being such a nice guy is that the ladies aren't turning you down for that. In other words, putting together the logic that "this woman won't date me because I'm too nice," is assigning a pretty misogynistic belief that at a woman's core, she just wants to be used and abused.

In other words, I would say that 99% of these nice guys are missing out because of other factors such as the creepy way they put their hand on the girl's back as they go up the escalator, staring at a woman's ass when they think she doesn't notice them staring at their ass or going on the internet and telling the world what a nice guy you are to all these bitches. Maybe, just maybe, the girl just wants to be left alone, not because she's looking for jock to date-rape her.

Look, I've been that nice guy too. But then I turned 20. I've got no objection to dudes who never grow out of this phase getting their balls broke on the internet. Besides, I'd bet you anything, there's a flat-chested gamer chick in their lives who they treat as "just like one of the guys."

One of my favorite nice guys: In the past women seemed to get spooked when I was just thinking about grabbing them or pushing them against the wall. (What are you — psychic?)

I think you guys are massively stereotyping here