Pit Bulls: What's the appeal?

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I was walking my pit bull the other day and this giant red Escalade all rimmed out and tinted up comes screaming to a halt in the middle of very busy and narrow Magazine St right next to me. The window rolls down and the driver yells "CHECK THIS SHIT OUT!" I look inside and on the passenger seat is a cardboard box full of newborn pit puppies. Easily in the top five cutest fucking things I've ever seen. Then the dude just tears off down the street.

Moral: Pit bulls bring people closer together. Only connect, etc.

― adam, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

dammit, they've started blocking flickr at work.

― kingfish, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

quit!

― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

can't. too much stuff to fix.

― kingfish, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

if anyone in chicago wants a pitbull i met someone selling puppies a few weeks back at a diner.

― deej, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

burn yr desk.

xpost

― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

Can't do that. It'd burn my new die-cast Mazinger Z, the one with rocket punch and detachable scrander!

― kingfish, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

"eat my assleavings"

!

― onimo, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

It's not the dogs, it's the assholes who mistreat them.

That's a wrong assumption to make (at times). It is as if to say that the parents of Hitler (or any sociopath/killer/whatever) are to blame. That's a gross simplification, but it's just as wrong to say that it's the "assholes who mistreat them." Sometimes dogs just turn aggressive, have a dangerous attitude.

unfortunately it's very true in the case of pit bulls. there's a whole subculture dedicated to turning them into attack dogs, which is difficult to do given their naturally gentle demeanor. it's sickening. they are a very strong + tenacious breed, which makes them attractive to assholes looking for a symbol of power.

my own personal anecdote: I'm not a dog person (you can read about my own childhood dog attack story on the scars thread if you dare), but my wife is. she convinced me to take in a pit bull saved from a fighting ring back when we lived in nashville.

in tennessee pit bulls are euthanised automatically when they end up in shelters. they can't find them homes because the dog-fighting rings will just scoop them back up again. but this dog was not one of the fighters, she was a "warmup" dog, the one the other dogs would attack to get ready for a fight. she was the sweetest dog ever, and one of the shelter workers couldn't stand to see her put down. so she was smuggled out on the doggie underground railroad.

we had her for years, and she was an angel. it always surprised people unfamiliar with the breed that she was a pit bull. but it was literally like living with a hunted animal - we constantly had to lie about her breed to acquaintances, neighbors, and landlords because YES THE MEDIA AND THE DOGFIGHT SUBCULTURE have turned the pit bull into a symbol of fear and violence. it's such a shame.

I'm not a dog breeder, but I believe part of the reason the american staffordshire terrier name came about was to avoid the "pit bull" term, but essentially they're the same breed.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

needless to say I was OTMing kerry through this whole thread.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

Even when she thought "eat my assleavings" was a death threat?

― onimo, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

I'll give the benefit of the doubt on that one. maybe she thought it was one of those newfangled rap terms for a gat.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

doggie underground railroad

awesome

― kingfish, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

still hate 'em. Rex The Dog is cute tho.

― blueski, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

Edwurd, you're right, and your point applies to a lot of other breeds as well. Dogs aren't human, Nathalie, it's not like they decide that the world has wronged them due to their unpriviliged upbringing and therefore successful people/children/the neighbors deserve to have their faces savaged off. They react to environment, and people in their environment, and if we want to force dogs to accommodate our lifestyles and live indoors, be people-friendly, communicate in ways that people respond to, we have to communicate in THEIR language as well.

Yes, absolutely, some dogs are better suited for non-child-having families, or will never adjust well to other dogs or other animals, etc etc -- many discipline and personality conditions come from levels of damage, hurt, or mistrust that can build up over a life of abuse, starvation, bad handling, and all the shitty things that people do to animals! And some dogs & breeds are stronger-willed or pushier than others and need a stronger personality in their owners to enforce human commands and understand the ins and outs of the pack mentality. This is not the dogs' fault any more than one of your children being precocious and strong-willed is that child's fault.

All of which puts the burden even more on the OWNER to make thoughtful pet choices in the first place, and then find a mutually beneficial solution if those choices don't work out. Seeing as how the dog doesn't have a choice about who adopts her!

― Laurel, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 17:01 (nineteen years ago)

we have to communicate in THEIR language as well.

rello, rease don't raul re.

― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 17:42 (nineteen years ago)

ARROOOO?

― Laurel, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 17:43 (nineteen years ago)

Pits are the biggest sweetie softies ever! They are friendly and loving and very easy to train---quite eager to please.

My mum-in-law who lives next door has a pit named Biff that's going on 12---really old for the breed. He's starting to get degenerative dementia and climb through kitchen windows, sit in the shower and moan, and he'll only sleep with me. It's breaking all of our hearts, but especially hers. She's had him the whole time through a divorce, moving, all kinds of hardships, and he's always been the most loyal, comforting & sweet dog. Poor Biffy, it's really making us all very sad.

She's getting a new pit in a few weeks, though, a rompy frisky little blue with blue eyes! She's not going to cut his balls so he'll stay huge and so she can farm him out for a stud fee. He's UKC purple ribbon & all this stuff, just a wonderful strong handsome lineage with a delightful temperament.

Pits are nice if you're a lady bcz they're a lot more intimidating to walk around with than, say, a chinese crested.

― Abbott, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 23:58 (nineteen years ago)

Biffy being chill as per:

http://a694.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01305/39/63/1305103693_l.jpg

Before he went nuts, he always slept cuddled in bed on his back, just like a human:

http://a25.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01305/42/05/1305105024_l.jpg

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:01 (nineteen years ago)

I'm sure these are sweet dogs and would never hurt a fly, but aren't there like a million other breeds you could choose from that won't scare people?

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:20 (nineteen years ago)

Sure, I could drive a tank down the street that has no working gun, but you know something that is big and tracked and olive green is bound to upset people - so why not just get a pick-up truck?

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:22 (nineteen years ago)

those delicate sorts of people can fuck right off to their poodles or their pussy cats

― félix pié, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:38 (nineteen years ago)

The same arguments were made about dobermans back when they were the big mean-looking dog of choice, german shepherds before that.

― Jaq, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:40 (nineteen years ago)

I think those are breeds which still signify a threat to most people.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:44 (nineteen years ago)

I mean do you guys really not understand that many normal and nice people are scared when certain types of dogs are around?

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:44 (nineteen years ago)

There's been general hysteria about different breeds at different times depending on cultural trends, items in the news, lots of things. I seem to remember that German Shepherds used to be the Big Bad, but now they're recognized & respected for their police and rescue work, for their devotion to duty as guide dogs, companion dogs, etc. Pits are just in one of those cycles, and the drug dealer/attack dog culture is a big culprit in the continuing fracas.

Puppy mills that breed & sell large numbers of "in" dogs, whether for fashionable accessories or for trained aggression, are to be avoided at all costs; those kinds of breeders don't monitor their breeding lines for even temperment, healthy physique, known genetic afflictions, or anything else (unless they're so unsavory that they're actually breeding for aggression or something, in which case obv their households should only meet disease and tragedy, to paraphrase a Yiddish curse). But there's nothing wrong with the responsible breeding & ownership of ANY dog breed for its own sake -- all of them have important and lovable qualities and as much of a right to exist as anyone.

Hahah xp

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:48 (nineteen years ago)

Spencer, are you by extension saying that people have a responsibility to others to never be intimidating in size, musculature, style, demeanor, or in any other area of personal choice, in order to put the general public more at ease around them?? I don't mean to build a strawman here, I think that's an obvious dead end! But I don't see how your argument about dogs is any different....

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:52 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but why would you want to be a person that owns a marked breed during the time when they are feared? It's not like one gives birth to a pet. It's a choice and I'm curious about what goes into making that choice. It just seems like there are easier breeds to keep which make equally fine pets.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:53 (nineteen years ago)

If people who really loved all those "dangerous" dogs didn't keep breeding and raising healthy, well-adjusted specimens even in the down cycles, there'd be no safe/healthy genetic stock to return to once the mania passed...and just in terms of species diversity, I think that's a useful outcome, if for no other reason (and I think there are PLENTY of other reasons, but just to pick one).

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:56 (nineteen years ago)

xpost
I'm not saying it's a responsibility to others (although some might see it that way). I'm just asking whether owners are aware that their pets cause fear and how they feel about making that choice.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:56 (nineteen years ago)

Everyone, like EVERYONE here, owns a pit or a chihuahua or both. Everyone locally knows they're not big assholes---sure it might be a cultural 'I am projecting threat' image, but they're also just great dogs. It's not like driving a hummer er summat.

It's funny, actually, in the town I grew up in, everyone had a husky or a cocker spaniel. The next it was a miniature dachshund or a lab of some sort (NOT smart because everyone tried to keep them as indoor dogs). And the breeding always turned out well somehow due to the lack of puppy mill ubiquity, everyone just bred their dogs with their neighbors' dogs if someone else wanted puppies. Has anyone else encountered such local phenomena?

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:56 (nineteen years ago)

And that IS funyy bcz my mum-in-law is getting the pit in part for protection, but not becuase pits-scary, because large-ish dog when walking alone at night helps signify 'I am a woman you can't rob, mug, rape, etc.'

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:58 (nineteen years ago)

Not really, my parents raised collies but we bought ours from a local breeder and when my parents wanted puppies, they took our dog(s) back to the breeder and had her set up a good match with another lineage that she had access to, to get the best outcome for the offspring -- and we didn't have trouble finding homes for either the show- or pet-quality pups, and we able to only place them in homes that seemed to be stable, loving, a good match. It's really a pretty demanding commitment to do right by yr chosen breed, if that's your ultimate aim.

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:01 (nineteen years ago)

Spencer, people are right to be cautious with any dog, regardless of breed. Granted, a Chinese Crested might have a hard time doing as much damage, but all dogs are capable of vicious bites. I don't like small fluffy dogs much because my aunt had a terribly vicious pekinese, and I walked the nastiest long haired dachshund when I was a kid. My husband was attacked by a Boston terrier when he was a kid and hates them passionately still. But vilifying all dogs of a particular breed, to the point of legislating against them, is over-reacting. My stepdaughter is very aware of how people perceive her dog, and does lots of ambassador work when walking her around.

xpost - Haha Laurel! Chows were on that list for awhile too, iirc.

― Jaq, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:02 (nineteen years ago)

I just wish people wouldn't dock their ears and tails. I feel this abt every dog. See above: the expressive, cute, relaxed ears of Biffy.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:03 (nineteen years ago)

Little dogs have COMPLEXES. Why do they live forever and sweeties like Newfoundlands die in 7 years? This is my argument against intelligent design, though I usually say 'long life of Reagan v. newfoundland.'

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:05 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe some owners do understand that their dogs might cause fear in some folks and choose to go about walking with their well-treated, friendly packmate to prove the point that you don't have to be afraid of a dog just because it's big and got teef. Like an outreach program.

After watching Cesar Milan deal with some people's little fluffy dogs I'm much more suspicious of those breeds than I am of bull terriers, herding dogs and other big 'uns by a long shot!

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:06 (nineteen years ago)

ps. Jaq your grandpuppy is k-cute! I love his little brown nose.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:06 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I saw the discussion of Chows above! In my reading, altho I've never had a Chow or known any very well, they're quite smart and strong-willed and not terribly eager to please, and benefit from a firm hand from their owners...you can't just "get by" by being their friend, I don't think. And by "firm hand" I mean obedience training, games to keep them interested so they don't cause trouble when bored, regular exercise with their humans, that kind of thing. Not the kind of dog who'll let you slide. :)

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:07 (nineteen years ago)

little dogs are the SUVs of canines.

― félix pié, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:07 (nineteen years ago)

Hahah, OMG, get one (1) eyewitness to a dachshund walking past a German Shepherd and see who freaks out first and most viciously.

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:09 (nineteen years ago)

chows do tend towards aggression. i think they're beautiful, but i'd never have one.

xpost

― lauren, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:09 (nineteen years ago)

These are good answers. Frankly, I like virtually every dog I meet and look forward to having a yard where I can keep one.

That said, I do think there is an ego thing with owning a "scary" dog that's similar to owning a Hummer. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but I do think there's something slightly anti-social about it.

Also I have a thing for Boston Terriers because Famke Janssen is always walking hers around the neighborhood.

Also, my family is not aggressive at all. Some of my best friends are Chows, etc.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:12 (nineteen years ago)

little dogs are the SUVs of canines.

Hmm, I disagree with this, they're more like a Miata or Z4.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:15 (nineteen years ago)

i was going to say no because people who own little dogs are obnoxious like hummers, but then again miatas are obnoxious as fuck too

― félix pié, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

actually i like all dogs generally, i would own all this dogs if i could

― félix pié, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

the sheer brute strength of the pit bull is no joke, though. there are a lot of them at the shelter i volunteer for, and i can only walk the undersized or feeble.

― lauren, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:19 (nineteen years ago)

Spence, one of the saddest things about pits is that they ARE so eager, and so loyal, and so affectionate, that it's relatively easy to train them to do terrible things by either rewarding violence with approval/affection or by simply hurting them and betraying their trust until that original congenial pack nature is perverted into mindless violence & constant defensive panic (in which case they basically have to be put down, I suspect).

It's a purposeful cycle of abuse that no creature should be subjected to, and it means living in misery for the dogs. The fact that they ARE muscular and have much more jaw strength than average is only a coincidence that has led them to be used for evil purposes in the first place. I mean, would anyone take seriously an attack basenji?

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

Can anyone see why a woman in a scary neighbs would want to own a 'scary' dog? Or at least a larger one? I've got a pit-basset blend who's the sweetest, goofiest, dog ever, but people stay away from me & him because I've got him, whereas before I had him creepy old dudes would follow me around trying to get me to come home with them. I don't have a phone, car, or bicycle (or friends for that matter)---so the dog provides all the protection (perceived or real) and affection I need.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

the sheer brute strength of the pit bull is no joke, though. there are a lot of them at the shelter i volunteer for, and i can only walk the undersized or feeble.

Haha, have you seen them jump? The muscle is all in the hind legs. My girlfriend's family has a pit bull that can jump a ~4ft baby gate without a running start.

― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:29 (nineteen years ago)

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