Is this anti-semitism?

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-demand-apology-for-anti-semitic-netanyahu-cartoon/

Well is that cartoon anti-semitic? Dubious allegation imo. It's blunt but I could imagine Scarfe drawing a similarly gory image a few years ago with Tony Blair or George Bush.

bibi and his big nose are building a wall w/ the blood of arabs. can't imagine what's anti-semitic about that.

http://blog.camera.org/archives/2013/01/which_one_of_these_antisemitic.html

Like the Israeli cartoonist in the article says, Bibi's nose isn't that big compared to your standard Scarfe caricature. And what's anti-semitic about a wall or blood? (in this context, not in the case of blood libel obviously) The Eternal Jew poster that the blogger claims Scarfe "emulates" doesn't look like it at all.

lol ok

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Dave_Brown%27s_Goya_Ariel_Sharon.jpg

What's wrong? Never seen an anti-Semitic caricature of an Israeli politician before?

http://commentisfreewatch.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/steve-bell-16-12-2012-0021.jpg

Nothing to see here...

Don't see the original cartoon as anti-Semitic myself.

Cartoonists should avoid drawing noses on Israeli politicians to avoid this kind of controversy though.

Don't worry about it.

http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2013/01/TIMES-CARTOON-195x293.jpg

I particularly like how the blood is dripping out of the cracks of the wall. Such attention to detail.

every time this happens they say they would do the same for putin or whatever, which might be true but is always oblivious to the overdetermination, that where israel is concerned there is always a litany of old antisemitic tropes produced by the same 'neutral' imagery

"in this context, not in the case of blood libel obviously"

why not? that's the exact association that makes it look antisemitic.

They should probably stop brutalising Palestinians maybe

some of the responses here boggle the fuck out of me, and then I remember:

OMG I WANT THIS AMAZING RONALDINHO BOTTLE OPENER

it's (accidentally?) quite evocative of this:

When astrologers told the Pharaoh that an Israelite male child born at that time would grow up to overthrow Pharaoh, Pharaoh decided to kill all the male children born to the Israelites. He ordered them thrown into the Nile River.

Pharaoh was stricken with a skin disease. His doctors told him that only baths of blood could cure his disease. So Pharaoh bathed in the blood of Israelite babies.

When the subjugation was at its worst, the Egyptians forced upon the Israelites an unreasonable quota of bricks. If the Israelites failed to fill the quota of bricks, their children were killed in front of them, and the bodies were mixed into the brick-mortar.

They should probably stop brutalising Palestinians maybe

yeah! stop brutalizing the palestinians, jews and we'll stop running anti-semitic comics in the uk press!

Please continue to tie your support of the Palestinian nationalism movement to your support of anti-semitic comics on ILX. You're definitely doing your argument a service.

http://www.jonathanlynn.com/images/gallery/yes_minister_title2.jpg

scarfe's end titles for yes minister/yes prime minister

Or they won't be perceived to be anti-Semitic because of ya know caricatures

it's not like these shitty cartoons are of any political value

like if someone tells steve bell that depicting benyamin netanyahu as the puppetmaster behind the uk foreign office is not merely politically fatuous but also antisemitic, and he no longer gets to do shitty cartoons about israel, the world will still be the same

Mordy, posting other cartoons that are anti-semitic doesn't prove that this one is. That may be your personal response but it's not a clear-cut case. This Haaretz writer puts a strong case for the defence:

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/four-reasons-why-u-k-cartoon-of-netanyahu-isn-t-anti-semitic-in-any-way.premium-1.496880

xp nostormo, are you seriously saying that no cartoon critical of Israel is allowed to include blood because, in a different, specific context, blood is used as an anti-semitic image? Should this be the only case where the depiction of blood is not allowed at all?

should cartoonists avoid blood when depicting jewish subjects? honest q

should cartoonists avoid apes when depicting black presidents? honest q.

Wouldn't want to offend Bibi

Gukbe, I love arguing with you about this. You do all the heavy lifting for me.

xp Fatuous q.

Should a culture that has been suffering persecution for thousands of years be exempt from criticism when they persecute?

I'm not really arguing with you mordy but I'm glad you're enjoying it.

should cartoonists avoid apes when depicting black presidents? honest q.

― Mordy, Monday, 28 January 2013 20:06 (2 minutes ago)

thankfully steve bell, having spent 8 yrs drawing his predecessor as a chimp, has restrained himself wrt obama

Dead Palestinians noses seem about proportionally the same but I guess you have a monopoly on what is anti Semitic.

Yeah, Gukbe, maybe I know better than you what constitutes anti-semitism.

But hey, continue to explain how it's cool bc Israel is persecuting the Palestinians.

I'm not saying anti semitism is cool.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Palestinians are Semitic as well, aren't they? So Gukbe's observation kind of strengthens Mordy's argument?

The term antisemitism was invented by Wilhelm Marr to be a scientific + classy way of referring to Jew hatred. It has nothing to do with Semitic languages or ethnic backgrounds.

well that's not helpful!

Should a culture that has been suffering persecution for thousands of years be exempt from criticism when they persecute?

― Gukbe, Monday, 28 January 2013 20:08 (2 minutes ago)

this is so stupid, even if the suggestion that 'a culture' somehow has agency for israeli state policy is merely accidental

there are a million ways to criticize israel, just not using shitty cartoons

so effectively israel gets an exemption there, wow how unfair

I was bei g facetious going along with the previous line of questions

not sure if the scarfe is specifically antisemitic but it is hateful and in poor taste

Joseph Kony is a horrible, horrible person, but a political cartoon that showed him half-naked in body paint with a bone through his nose eating children would still be considered racist. There's no need to feel like condemning this cartoon is de facto condoning Israeli policy.

I don't think it is, but I'm not sure this image is up there with, say, Alec Guiness in Great Expectations.

xp Of course not, but nor does thinking this cartoon isn't anti-semitic count as condoning anti-semitism. And there's nothing in this cartoon equivalent to a bone through Joseph Kony's nose imo.

This isn't reducing Bibi to a stereotype like that Kony example is what I guess my point is. But sure, if you want to find it, I guess it's there.

the antisemitic elements of the cartoon are relatively mild it's true

1) "Arabs are semites too" is a pointless semantic canard -- "antisemitism" has been used to mean only one thing for many decades. If we just said "racist against Jews" or something like that I guess we could avoid having this annoying discussion every time, but it's always just used as a conversation disruptor -- whether Arabs are semites has nothing to do with whether a cartoon is anti-Jewish or not.

2) I think the issue is not really any isolated factor (nose, blood, w/e) but the tendency to make Israeli politicians look extra-sinister and bloodthirsty. I don't think I've ever seen a major western newspaper portray obama as doing anything like eating babies or sealing walls with blood in re, e.g., criticisms of drone strikes, or even Bush wrt the Iraq war, but I could be wrong.

there is a difference between "blood" in general and using palestinian blood to built a wall after murdering them.

the cartoonist is not antisemitic but that's not the problem. the problem is that for some other people it does.
(i wonder what would be the reaction for a similar Muhammad cartoon)

regardless of the cartoonist/cartoon, here are some issues regarding this matter:

1. subconscious
2. "anti-israelism" as confused with antisemitism and vice versa.
3. is there a "liberal" who would truly admit he is antisemitic? (see also 1)

2.) is an interesting point.