Fringe (new JJ Abrams show) : Mad scientist, flesh eating virus, a cow and talks with the dead

how are you gonna feel wonderment at the world or learn about your feelings if there's not a little blood puking-up?

The best episodes were those that fleshed out characters while doing a solid monster of the week

One of my faves is still the Peter Weller time travel one. Writers must have thought so, too, with the callback it got

fleshing out characters, dissolving character actors' flesh

Well done, j.

Caught up, again. The finale doesn't reach the heights of seasons 3 and parts of 4, but much better than the bulk of this season.

I wonder if Michael's ability to jack up Windmark was some passive ability where his innate FEELS shorted W's mindreading, or if Michael was making a particularly active point to bloody him up.

in the finale episodes someone says specifically that they chose that era because of the high chances of success (due to the pliability/docility of the human occupants then?) the era presented.

No one mentions anything in-story, but I'm sure that the technological development of "our" era is sufficiently useful for their purposes. Go back too far in time, and they're in the stone age, not far enough and I dunno, everyone's packing heat by then and are able to fend off their invasion.

when david robert jones originally hijacked those, were they already in use by the observers?

DRJ hijacked the shipping lanes? No recollection of that at all. I only remember him crossing over b/w universes.

Still confused about September's gunshot wound from last season, i.e. the stuff in the theater where he prophesies Olivia's death. I mean, he phased out on Walter's gurney in the lab, with the implication that he died, but I guess haha he didn't?

Bothered for half the finale about the treatment of paradoxes. For starters, if the Observers never become Observers, then they can't go back in time to watch and then intervene in Walter crossing over and saving Peter. So no Peter + Olivia and thus no Etta. What's more, Walter saying he'd be written out of time in rebooted 2015 because nature abhors a paradox -- buh? By my reckoning, Peter's the paradox, and if he's around at the time, September is, too. And from a character POV, why would Walter insist on escorting Michael instead of Sept. when Walter himself knows well the pain of sundering filial bonds? Did he just want to kick it in the future?

That said, I love Ashcan.

And Olivia's cortexiphan rage in the climax == hooray.

was there any need for that plot to be connected to the observers' invasion (and to september's attachment to the human beings of the time and his use of that period to hide michael)?

Unless I missed something, they didn't tie the Observers' invasion with Bell's utopia, no?

I enjoyed the finale and thought it made about as much sense as possible given the nature of the show.

sorry, lee, i didn't phrase that right - i meant, it does look like there was no tie, and i was wondering if there was something in the plot that required a connection between them that i'm overlooking. kind of weird to have two enormous unconnected superweird things go on!

yeah. i was taken aback by the other universe seeming basically observer-free too. it has seemed earlier on that the observers had some deeper connection to the multiple-universe stuff in particular.

i actually can't piece together either the fully connection between drj as enemy vs. walternate as enemy vs. bell as enemy.

certainly the observers played a role for a period in trying to suppress peter, so there was *some* broader connection.

jones was bell's agent.

sorry, lee, i didn't phrase that right - i meant, it does look like there was no tie, and i was wondering if there was something in the plot that required a connection between them that i'm overlooking. kind of weird to have two enormous unconnected superweird things go on!

They originally meant to wrap the Bell/DRJ story up in season 4 because it wasn't clear that the show was going to be renewed. The Observers plot was only created once they knew they were getting one more season.

Bothered for half the finale about the treatment of paradoxes. For starters, if the Observers never become Observers, then they can't go back in time to watch and then intervene in Walter crossing over and saving Peter. So no Peter + Olivia and thus no Etta. What's more, Walter saying he'd be written out of time in rebooted 2015 because nature abhors a paradox -- buh? By my reckoning, Peter's the paradox, and if he's around at the time, September is, too. And from a character POV, why would Walter insist on escorting Michael instead of Sept. when Walter himself knows well the pain of sundering filial bonds? Did he just want to kick it in the future?

Yeah I was confused by this too - when Donald/September originally spoke to Walter about having to give Peter up, I thought he meant it was because September, having never existed, wouldn't be there to save Peter in the lake.

(You can go even further to say that Peter wouldn't even be in "our" universe, because September wouldn't have interrupted Walternate when he was creating the cure for Peter, so Walter wouldn't have needed to go over to the other side, and so Peter and Olivia would have never met in the first place).

But... time travel, eh? I was moved enough by John Noble and Joshua Jackson's performances that I honestly didn't care too much in the end. This show has always been less about the science and more about the effects of science on humanity - its great potential, as well as its burdens and limitations.

The Observers seemed more like the Adjusters in The Adjustment Bureau, rather than unemotional future humans, originally. I thought they existed so that they could ensure certain events occurred according to some preexisting plan.

Is this worth watching from the start? Have been meaning to get going on it for a while but all the initial impressions here are kind of underwhelmed. How long before it gets good?

Worth it imo, though I wasn't fully on board until the first season finale, which blew my mind.

I'm a bit confused about the future Walter and Michael travelled to--it would have to be a future in which the Observers had invaded a century or so before (since that's the present they were departing from), rather than the original future in which human scientists had started creating the Observers, right?

Also, how did past Walter know when to send Peter the tulip?

I think the implication was that actions taken by people working outside of their own timelines would persist. All in all, pretty vague, though.

I'm probably the only one who cares but I hoped they would have a brief reference at the end to sending the universe-bridging machine back in time! There were a few things left hanging but I think that one was probably the most obvious. Didn't they establish that Walter and Peter had actually built it and then sent it back at some point, but in the plot of the show they never do so or explain how that came about.

Not that it matters either way. I think there's just a lot of cross-universe, cross-timeline detritus that exists in the show's universe.

They originally meant to wrap the Bell/DRJ story up in season 4 because it wasn't clear that the show was going to be renewed. The Observers plot was only created once they knew they were getting one more season.

Ah, that explains a LOT, structure-wise.

This show has always been less about the science

Hahaha omg truer have never been spoken, and I know I shouldn't let its plot holes and more egregious flights of fantasy bother me.

Also, how did past Walter know when to send Peter the tulip?

Didn't they establish that Walter and Peter had actually built it and then sent it back at some point

They did! I actually feel kind of shortchanged on this point, especially the stuff about how Walter actually wrote the weird German book has the kind of pulpy apocalyptic millenarianism that I eat up.

lol yes. Perhaps Walter hanging round in the future with Michael built the machine and sent it back. We know Walternate lived to at least age 90, so Walter has at least 20 years to tinker with technology from 2167.

<i>Is this worth watching from the start? Have been meaning to get going on it for a while but all the initial impressions here are kind of underwhelmed. How long before it gets good?

― Matt DC, Monday, 21 January 2013 10:35 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink</i>

Roughly speaking:

It starts off kind of laughably bad in the first season, gradually becomes more entertaining (while remaining basically stupid), gets worse again, and then suddenly (around halfway through the second season) gets really, genuinely excellent.

Unfortunately (as is the way) you kind of have to watch the bad stuff for the good stuff to work (call this the "Cerebus Volume I Effect").

It peaks over the second half of season 2 to about halfway through season 3 - after that there's some less effective/WTF decisions about the over-arching plot, but it's still fun to hang around with the characters, and it never turns to self-parody.

The last season is mostly solid, and unlike Lost/BSG, the finale doesn't make you feel like a complete asshole for wasting your time for several years.

I'll miss it!

...on the other hand, if you decide you can't be bothered, do download "White Tulip," which is probably the best ep, and works well as a standalone/taster.

i've been kind of slowly watching this show on netflix and have been enjoying it as light entertainment, but the beginning of ep 18 "Midnight" just turned me into a fan 4ever. clever and critical at the same time in a scene that lasted like 10 seconds.

i finished watching the final season of Fringe last week and am totally missing the characters. feels weird.

you barreled through those!

Walter was on Good Wife a couple of weeks ago!

final disc of this showing up tonight. this show turned out to be really really good i think. the black umbrella episode was great, w/all the password stuff slyly hidden in the periphery of scenes (animated frog, painting of weird dog on the storage wall etc.)

I love coming across episodes of this show while I'm randomly surfing channels - now watching the one where Lincoln gets infected by the flying porcupine thing. He and Walter are hilarious - they should have had more scenes together.

Not having had cable at the time, have the Season 5 box set at home unwatched. Part of the viewing delay is the time commitment, but suspect the majority of it is not wanting to admit the show's over.

But fring wasn't on cable

Yes he was, AMC as a matter of fact

Ok, so the final stretch of eps was on Netflix for about a week and now they're gone. What gives?

ha

One of my faves is still the Peter Weller time travel one. Writers must have thought so, too, with the callback it got

― mh, Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:09 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

found myself thinking abt this guy the other day, figured it meant i should re-screen from day 1

I've been thinking about this show lately and how unfairly expensive getting all the seasons on BR/DVD is. Is there a whole-series box in the works/available?

Fringe: The Complete Series 1-5 Blu-Ray and DVD, Amazon UK and US:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fringe-Complete-Season-Blu-ray-Region/dp/B008HE9PUC
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fringe-The-Complete-Series-DVD/dp/B008HE9PGG

http://www.amazon.com/Fringe-Complete-Blu-ray-Various/dp/B00B5AAW9I
http://www.amazon.com/Fringe-Complete-Various/dp/B00B6OEC5S

Wow~~~~

huh, well, it's all on streaming services now, do I justify it by saying that might not always be the case and there's the small possibility I'd watch some extras/commentary?

I started watching last week and I'm now halfway season 2 - so far, I'd say no, the DVD's aren't worth it for the extra material. It's mostly "look at this one scene, aren't our stunt/FX guys/writers the greatest?", some cut scenes that only make you think, yeah, that wasn't necessary for the story at all, and a gag reel that's just like all other gag reels ever.

Meanwhile, Season 1 was great - it all ties together, but Season 2 is, right now, kinda disappointing in an X-Files kind of way (they've started with these monster/virus/ghost-of-the-week episodes that don't have any connection to the main story arc anymore and while these are ok in a character development sense, it's very meh because I want to know what's going on with the bigger story right now.)

but about what I said: YMMV, obviously:

The best episodes were those that fleshed out characters while doing a solid monster of the week

― mh, Monday, January 21, 2013 3:09 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Have you seen the series before, Stan? Because my reaction (and I think most viewers') have reversed the season 1/season 2 preferences.

I ordered the set, just so I can bawl over watch "White Tulip" a billion times.

No, I hadn't seen any of it. At the start of season 3 now, intrigued + happy that everything seems to revolve around the main story arc(s) again.

Season two, I just don't know, it felt like they were unprepared for the renewal (let's stretch/delay telling Peter his big secret for 12 episodes and throw in a couple of musical/40s noir/monster episodes that don't have any connection to the main story line at all to fill the season).

I felt the same about the x-files sometimes. Even though those sewer worm dude/Scully gets a tattoo type episodes can be nice, I wanted to know what was going on with Mulder's sister, the black oil thing, the shape-shifting bounty hunters, the super soldier stuff, etc)

So you're the one who wanted to know about the Super Soldiers

I don't remember how/if it all tied together it the end though, in X-Files. I may have to rewatch the whole ten seasons again one day, I guess. I hope Fringe takes the story in fewer unresolved directions :-/

lol xp

I think there are a couple threads that don't quite make sense due to change in plot direction, but it wraps up pretty well. It's a story about family, in the end, which is kind of where it starts going by the point you're at.

It's funny how everybody in the Fringe team seems to have forgotten about the talking to the dead thing, that could have helped them solve quite a lot of their cases imho.

... and how is there only one alternate universe, after Walter explains how it splits up with each decision we make, there surely must be an infinite number of them? I know, I know, don't question, just watch.

pretty sure there are more than one. That just happened to be the one Walter snatched a Peter from.

and it fucked up the border between the two

(SPOILERS)
there has to be a third they collided with where Walter and Peter time travelled and hid the machine in the past

I think there are about a half-dozen universes explored during the show, but a lot of them are in the last couple of seasons? reallyw as a good show, on balance kinda wish i could go back and watch it again for the first time. season 3 and 5 i think especially. walternate was so great.

Just starting season 5. Seasons 3 & 4 were really really great, but now I'm surprised at not caring about 2036 dystopian blade runner chinatown underworld resistance zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I'm about 15 minutes into the first episode and I just switched it off. Not sure I even want to see the rest.

It's not worth it, no. Consider how bad everything Kurtzman & Orci do is, it's amazing they pulled off season 3. And season 4 could have been good if the writers didn't have to work with that stupid cliffhanger.

given any investment in the rest of the series, i thought season 5 ended up wrapping up things ok, all told. it does end up drawing you in within a few episodes.