Moneyball won't win the Premiership 2012-13

false #0

no offence michael -i'll make a list of spurs players that'll likely go in summer if it helps- but these are the realities, no? everton mightn't be as hard-up as they were a few years ago but moyes and kenwright know very well that cashing in at the height of a player's form is a smarter long-term move a lot of the time. If you finish top four there's obv more chance of retaining and bolstering, but otherwise this is how every club below the top three operate, hardly a major denigration.

sounds about right re roving big

regardless of his technique fellaini's main attribute will always ultimately be causing terror

baines idk, he is 28 so £15m or whatever isn't going to fit in with the united transfer policy for non-rvps

― things that are jokes pretty much (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:27 (1 minute ago) Bookmark

maybs but there's already allowance for youth elsewhere in the side and evra's indian summer might solidify the desire for readymade continuity of efficacy in the position

Fabio's loan looks a wee bit misjudged in retrospect

nah honestly he's not good enough, just doesnt have the needle in him his bro has

what have u heard?

xp in fact the loan was prob a bid to get that into him, clockwork orange torture scene style

still, he went from starting a Champions League final in 2011 to a berth on the deathship QPR

feel like all this general lol benitez vibe nowadays is obscuring the historical value of his work tonight

his more recent inter/chelsea fuck ups were part of a general incompetence but this rotation was vintage stuff, that exactly-why-liverpool-didnt-win-the-league shit

swp is such a little dickhead not celebrating cos he spent a year in chelsea reserves, i was on my knees in the pub mid-rapture suddenly thinking it was disallowed

haha!

I dunno Fergie drops rotational bollocks like that occasionally as well, usually when trying to play both Scholes and Giggs against City or whoever. Question the wisdom of resting both Hazard and Mata at the same time given they've been responsible for most of Chelsea's goals, but that Chelsea starting XI should still have been good enough to beat QPR.

Like did Rafa at Liverpool ever decide to rest both Torres and Gerrard at the same time?

no offence michael -i'll make a list of spurs players that'll likely go in summer if it helps- but these are the realities, no? everton mightn't be as hard-up as they were a few years ago but moyes and kenwright know very well that cashing in at the height of a player's form is a smarter long-term move a lot of the time. If you finish top four there's obv more chance of retaining and bolstering, but otherwise this is how every club below the top three operate, hardly a major denigration.

But Spurs have the luxury of being able to turn down £30m bids for players, Everton don't. If the players were all miserable and looking to get out I'd understand it but Everton do give the impression of a club where players are relatively happy and pull together. Like if I was an Everton fan I'd look at Thomas Graveson's move to Real and wonder what the point was for anyone concerned. Fellaini's probably better than that but he'll never be the same force at United or any other club.

Realities, schmealities - I've been in denial for most of the last 20 years of English football. It's just the "wow, Everton really are pretty good at the moment, especially key players x, y, z - time to cash in" thing that makes you want to give up. Like, that's the end-game. Not building the best team since the late-'80s, but selling to richer clubs in order not to go bust. Maybe it reminds me too much of my own debt-ridden overworked middle-age.

If this had been the state of affairs 25-30 years ago, Sheedy, Steven, Sharp and Ratcliffe would've been sold as soon as they became profitable in '82-'84 and we'd have bumbled along in 8th place for the rest of the decade.

I'm just grumblin' into my pint. Nothing to see here.

xp - agree with MDC. Rooney's probably the only real example of too-good-to-keep I can think of in EFC's recent history. We got the best six/seven seasons of Arteta's career. Same with Cahill. In my myopic worldview, if players want to leave Goodison, fine. They're idiots.

Good to see we didn't ruin Pienaar too much though.

spurs have turned down 30m precisely once, and that was a joke grudge late bid for modric that we couldn't accept. Real signed him for significantly less.

Maybe i'm just bitter, it's not that i see spurs as in any different a position- your top two or three are going to be targets for the next club up the ladder. Moyes manages to keep those guys around a lot better than eg arsenal, i think, and levy makes sure that we don't let anyone go cheap, but if bale got the right tap in summer we'd be selling. You just try to get the cash in and replace, evolve another one or two to that level- slow progress but steady (modric out, dembele in, bale out, willian or leandro or whoever, keep it rollin)

rafa "rotating" robbie keane arguably cost the team goals/points in 08/09. i'm no fan of the guy, but he started scoring around christmas/january, and rafa dropped him or subbed him off. there were plenty games where they were desperate for goals.

i can't really remember the rest of the anger about rotation. did he rest torres a lot early on, cos all i remember is him playing in a sulk with blood oozing out of both legs in every match, as rafa's reign came to an end.

Spurs ARE in a different position, they have a lot more money than Everton to spend on new signings and a deeper squad to develop from. Everyone except Barcelona and Real Madrid loses their best players eventually but clubs like Everton have a lot less room for manoeuvre in those situations.

That said, Moyes has done a very good job in keeping players around, even in periods when Everton haven't been winning. With Arsenal it's just funny.

Moyes manages to keep those guys around a lot better than eg arsenal, i think

Not sure about this. Arsenal have had a few major exits but most of them had put in lengthy shifts for the club. Fabregas was in the first team for seven seasons, Nasri for three, Cole for six, Toure for six. Walcott and Sagna have had more than 200 appearances each. I think it's more that Arsenal's exits are higher profile and more lol-worthy because they're not supposed to be a selling team and they're often not getting the best value when they do sell because they let contracts run short.

i dunno, it's worth a closer look maybe. arsenal finish top four every year, pay close enough to top dollar and sell their best player against their wishes (or so it's spun) every year. that, imo, is noteworthy. in contrast, it's very fair to say that moyes does a better job of keeping his best players, and keeping them happy.

spurs are in a different position matt, yes, they're a rung higher up- which was my point to michael- kenwright hasn't been able to finance the club and a big player might be more use to them sold to finance squad depth (i say this with a particular nod to moyes's ability to eke value from the lower end of the transfer market) in order to move towards a situation where overall squad (or first team quality) can support and defend keeping a 25/30m player. It's arguable that they're getting there and this season is crucial, i'd say spurs are there at the moment, note that lfc fans are uncertain as of last night whether they're still there. Balance, progression, ways and means, one step back, two steps forward, etc

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/03/article-0-16BCC4D2000005DC-873_306x423.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/03/article-2256586-16BCC513000005DC-662_634x421.jpg

They're having a training ground dance party, broken-nose hatboy steps in and requests a dance with Mario, Mario accepts too readily, Roberto is NOT happy even though he has a chance of a quick frug with Brian.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02441/1_2441831b.jpg

Mancini looks like he's begging for his life here. From a 1980s cartoon supervillain.

Kind of worried for Mancini

he was the aggressor tbf

anyone else care to opine that sturridge is a very good signing for 12m

thought it was undisclosed

I don't have any idea how he and Suarez will interact xp, so all I can say is he might be. He certainly won't make Liverpool any worse - as imago points out on the Rodgers thread, the platform to build on is there (the Villa debacle apart, and tbf they were good that day).

The question is whether they need a big improvement to compete, or only a little one. If it's the latter, and it might be because WBA, Stoke and Arsenal are the only times this year when we haven't looked able to compete, then Sturridge and the returning Lucas could on their own go a long way towards bridging the gap.

Top four is unlikely, but the gap somehow isn't actually that big and so I wouldn't completely rule it out this season.

ah ffs whats the matter with you

You wanted more bile?

reading and villa and southampton and fuckin anyone will claim that 'bar one or three matches we competed, everyone competes, but you can't go from that very low bar to 'we might make top four'. There's a big gap between 'not being shamed in more than three or so games' and even grabbing a UEFA cup place, and that gap is dwarved by the further leap needed to creditably claim you're in the hunt for fourth spot.

A very unklata post imo.

Nonsense. Liverpool aren't competing in terms of 'ooh, we could've got a draw there with a bit of luck' and 'pity that rearguard action didn't quite come off'. They're beating the teams below them fairly easily now, and coming up short against the higher sides mostly due to the absence of one easily-identifiable factor. Sturridge might plug that gap, in which case the games against the top sides start to look very different. I'd expect the record against the top half to improve more than I'd expect the record against the bottom half to deteriorate, put it that way.

The gap's only about half-a-dozen points, that's doable. It won't be if Spurs stay in form and Chelsea/City don't screw up too much, but even those aren't a given.

Two factors: one-man frontline, and lack of bite in midfield. Studge, Lucas and Ince potentially change things quite a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctWS52IA_JY

Three of Liverpool's next four games are against United, Arsenal and City, that gap's likely to get wider before it gets narrower.

Good chance to drag those three backwards, I say

Aside from that they've got a surprisingly straightforward run of games from February onward, if you overlook Rafa's triumphant return to Anfield.

nonsense, he sez

teams wot lfc aint beat this season:

West brom, man city. Arsenal, sunderland, man utd, stoke x 2, everton, swansea x 2, newcastle, chelsea, spurs, villa.

I don't see where your post is comin from tbh, teams all around you are beating you, many teams below you are taking points from you. Form is good right now, but only compared to previously, and you're not goin charging up that table unless qpr and fulham play you every week, and underperform at that.

Form's not that good, we took a proper schooling from Stoke only a week ago. I'm saying the window *may* enable that big step up via a shrewd signing or two, because that may be all that's needed to turn a team who can do defence & possession into a team who can do defence & possession & strength & goals. Think of them like Dembele coming back.

lordderak (Liverpool) says...

I like the fact that the article points out our inability to beat anyone above us so far, a cold hard fact yes but the games do tell a different story I'm afraid. City at Anfield got an undeserved point after a poor back pass, I wont even comment on the Utd game at Anfield as it's well regarded as daylight Robbery at this stage after some awful referee decisions. We got what we deserved against Arsenal and had a perfectly legitimate goal ruled out at Everton. How would you Analyse Utd's season? Yes they are top but have been beaten at home by Spurs and away at Norwich, both of these sides are below them, Chelsea just lost to the worst team in the league. The league is all over the place and to be honest you can never bank on anyone winning in any game at this stage such has been the nature of it so far. Yeah Liverpool haven't beaten anyone above them yet, but teams below them have beaten the top 2 sides in Utd (Norwich) and City (Sunderland) So you can see how that analysis is always flawed.

u are this guy today, i'm worried bout u boo

is it more likely that three new signings transform a team from midtable into cl hopefuls or that a team almost wholly reliant on one player gets found out over an entire season?

Do I need three or four more? Yes, I think so.

eh

xpost, nobody is making big claims for anything and that large body of text you found from fuck knows where is at least 75 per cent otm. they played man u and city off the park, utterly, city at least claimed a draw due to one massive defensive fuck-up, but in man u's case the wild red card decision saw them sneak a win despite being passed off the park, fairly sure even here that was the general consenus, and most pundits disagreed with the red. either way the 10 men did very well.

plus whatever about the overall picture, liverpool are improving as the season goes on. tbh this sudden and wild rage at ismael's fairly sanguine points from a fan of spurs is as good a sign of improvement as there is.

it's wild rage from a fan of ismael, tbph.

I've acknowledged form is good! I think rodgers is doing ok, not great but steady. I really, really think that talk of fourth based on the past 5-6 weeks of improved results is like replacing a methadone clinic's doses with the real shit for no reason whatsoever. Progress is happening! Don't spoil it ffs, it has to be recognised that for fans or rodgers or anyone to start thinking of a final league position now that (imo, obv) is far beyond them is not only damaging, but is the most needless, cliched and self-inflicted type of damage that could be done right now.

The shite posted is shite of the 'if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle' and both yourself and IK seem to be fitting your mum's sister for a strapon (tho you seemed to share my view on where lfc were atm last night!)

i mean, genuinely, if matt mentioned spurs and second in the same way i'd be twice as quick and twice as harsh, we have, as a board, got to give the tough love, remembering that it's love

and both yourself and IK seem to be fitting your mum's sister for a strapon

Can I just ask for clarification of this?

This isn't that kind of website

I never mentioned 4th, is the thing. Nobody is getting particularly carried away as far as I can see, well, almost nobody.