"Aliens" : Some nice effects, but actually kind've a crap film.

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yes that's exactly what we've been saying on this thread! it's got cool guns and that's the only reason i like it

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's not forget that the first Alien was nothing more than a well-executed horror movie.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i think harold has a point though alex, see it widescreen w/o commercials and you may change your mind

Oh, I've seen it properly before (in a theatre, actually). And yes, TV doesn't do justice to many films. I just don't think it's that well written. It's predecessor, meanwhile, was.

I don't understand what it is you're expecting of this movie, or why.

Well, I just don't think, in retrospect, it lives up to the promise of the first one.

I think Alex is objecting to character development and dialogue.

....or lack of it.

By the way, there are certainly worse films out there, for what it's worth.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:18 (twenty-one years ago)

that maternal subtext is HUGE and significantly complicates the subtext of the first (ripley defending her womanhood against the asexual rapaciousness of the alien and the asexual murderous logic of the android)

the sexual subtexts are easily the best thing about the alien movies - why else have giger design the shit? - hell, and scifi and horror movies in general, too, as opposed to scifi and horror novels - and the 2nd movie expands on those subtexts in a way that "alien: resurrection" just don't (now there's a shit movie).

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i see nobody cares for this highfalutin lit crit shit

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's not forget that the first Alien was nothing more than a well-executed horror movie.

I would argue that it's a great deal more difficult to make an effectively scary, suspenseful horror film than an action movie (wherein all you really need to please certain folks, as noted, are "cool guns").

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:20 (twenty-one years ago)

why else have giger design the shit?

Was HR Giger involved with the films that followed the second one?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:21 (twenty-one years ago)

he was only involved with the first

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:27 (twenty-one years ago)

and vahid i'm with you totally!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:27 (twenty-one years ago)

But surely the studio had the rights to his designs. So, kind-of.

Also, vahid OTM.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Although to be fair, the highfalutin lit crit shit happens after the fact, and neither adds nor detracts from the shit-yr-pants suspense.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Vahid's made some nice points re: Ripley's maternal role in the second one (the sexual elements in the first one, I believe, have more to do with Giger's actual design...could the monster look any more priapic?) But paired with the popcorn dialogue ("game over, man, game over!" "get your hands off her, you bitch!"), the subtext vahid alludes to seems muted.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

come on, the subtext there is totally obvious, you can't say that it's just some lit-critters reading in the maternal aspect

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

and alex that is why they call it SUBtext

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Seems to me, at least, the first one was genuinely suspenseful and NOT FOR EVERYONE , whereas this one went for the wider audience buck. That seems kinda crass to me.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Cripes, I look away and a thread breaks out on one of my fave films of all time (sorry Alex).

S: the theatrical cut
D: *only* being able to have the extended cut on DVD for a long time, but that's thankfully now corrected

Alien and Aliens are different takes on standard tropes that were successful precisely Scott and crew on the one hand and Cameron and crew on the other were able to hotwire them into something which was so ridiculously successful -- commercially and in terms of effective filmmaking -- that each in their own single-handedly established a slew of new cliches. Which may seem a strange thing to credit them for, but *how* many films since then have essentially tried to be one or the other, borrowing set pieces, concepts, dialogue practically and more? And none are nearly as good as these two.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

...but damnit, Cameron's at the top of his game here. He defines his job -- "This movie will be about a bunch of lovable Army meatheads that will be put into terrible danger" -- and then he does it better, arguably, than he has ever done any other job.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:34 (twenty-one years ago)

The mother confrontation is on right now. Whatever problems I have with the film -- this is very stylishly done, I must say.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

ahhhh!!! you love it

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

alex loves aliens!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

how about the music at the end there? (bum-ba-dum-ba-dum, bum-ba-dum-ba-dum etc) that must've been used in almost every post-aliens action trailer ever

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm rooting for the aliens, if that's what you mean.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

and what an ending! the surprise alien mother attack at the end (when ripley gets into the exoskeleton), i mean come on man. come. on.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, the whole "running through the ship before it goes kablooey" ship....didn't we cover that in the last film?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

You're back to arguing against the obviously formulaic, which will ruin your appreciation of the movie every time.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm rooting for the aliens, if that's what you mean.

that's pretty much the subtext of EVERY ilxor post you've ever written, alex!

:-)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, when the Queen Beastie gets sucked out into deep space, but only manages to slip away with Ripley's fetching Reebok pump (or whatever she was wearing). Weak.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

come on, you can't go wrong with a self-destruct climax

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, when the Queen Beastie gets sucked out into deep space, but only manages to slip away with Ripley's fetching Reebok pump (or whatever she was wearing).

Brilliantly parodied in the MST3K movie. So I will have nothing said against the original.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

If only Newt had been flayed alive and chopped into mcnuggets, this film would be way better.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I really need to get this DVD

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

What was the name of the cat in the first one?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The only "marines battling aliens" film I like more is Starship Troopers, which has another kind of subtext entirely.

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

The third and fourth installments really did suck a big space bone, though, can we all agree on that?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Jonesy the cat.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:44 (twenty-one years ago)

definitely, but go into any movie chatroom worldwide and Fincher bonesmokers will tell you it's the best in the series.

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:44 (twenty-one years ago)

bonesmokers!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:45 (twenty-one years ago)

On another matter entirely, why can't they leave The Exorcist alone? Why another abortive sequel?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

xxpost

It's certainly the best-*looking*.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Ebert: "one of the best-looking bad movies I have ever seen."

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I will watch the Paul Schrader cut.

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that an actual quote, Harold?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

It is.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Bishop just took one for the team. Milky vomit. Time for the robot loader battled...which is dumb/

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

hmmm... for some reason I can't find that Ebert review online.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:50 (twenty-one years ago)

but there's this one:

http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/greatmovies/alien.html

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Why would an industrial forklift loader -- presumably designed to lift bulky stuff -- come with built in flame-throwers?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe you, Harold, don't sweat it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Because he's a COOL ROBOT!

Oh, there's no talking to you.

― Harold Media (kenan), Friday, 20 August 2004 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

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i think the very unusual Ebert review of this is pretty spot-on, even if in some sense i disagree with it. He admits it's amazing but also admits he didn't enjoy it because of its intensity and constant dread, whereas i totally enjoy it every time. but i understand what he means. i think as far as a film depicting people finding themselves trapped in a desperate situation with no easy way out, it's almost unparalleled. the best thing about it is while there are characters who are not especially bright, none of them do anything especially stupid. they're flawed in recognizable ways. Hudson is an idiot but he doesn't make any dumb tactical errors, he freaks out but never in moments of action, just in moments of downtime. Gorman is in over his head but he's not a craven coward, he just freezes up. Burke flees into a bad spot towards the end, but i mean who the hell wouldn't make a run for it? etc etc...lots of the character types are cliches but their behavior and decision-making makes perfect sense for each one and unlike lesser films they don't behave in ways to artificially change the narrative and story, they're always reacting to what's happening at the moment.

the only thing i question is Burke still thinking about the Company and getting the samples back through quarantine at a time when the survival of the entire team seems pretty unlikely. But Reiser's extremely '80s nervous nice dude comedy style works surprisingly well for the character of an ambitious, sociopathic creep, so it mostly works for me despite that, and i suppose he also figured his survival was a mutually exclusive issue alongside the issue of the alien samples.

― omar little, Friday, 15 March 2019 16:53 (seven years ago)

agreed

omar otm again, as always

― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 15 March 2019 17:23 (seven years ago)

co-sign

'kind've'

― mookieproof, Friday, 15 March 2019 17:48 (seven years ago)

two months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFmq2gDwXpo

― Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 25 May 2019 00:35 (seven years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFmq2gDwXpo

― Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 25 May 2019 00:35 (seven years ago)

hmmm