Babygirl, unpack yr sweaters and get FABULOUS in FALL gay homo queer &c 2012

Alfred you are a man

Hmm.

I think it's sad and telling that an argument over Obama and labour politics turns into this. I wonder what is at the root of what here.

You did the right thing, though (that said, I'm hoping yr niece wasn't witness to any of this). Just sucks that it had to happen. And as for being too confessional, I thought that's what we did here!

sorry you had to go through that Alfred. Nobody like that in my family, at least that I ever see or know of.

Some of you will have to change your attitude about desserts when you pass 40. And the rest I curse.

Had 5 trick or treaters, I gave out all but one of my fun-size Twix bars. (3 each)

You guys are sweet. No, niece had gone home with tired mom a while before: just Dad, bro in law, and I smoking and drinking wine.

My parents are actually delicious company! Avoid sex and politics though.

sarge, that'd be cool.

alfred you definitely did the right thing, and it'll be beneficial in the long run, even if it feels like a shock now. a status quo of awkwardly not mentioning things is easy but not very satisfactory and more stressful than you think; sometimes you need a catalyst, a bombshell to lay your cards on the table and deliver a needed ultimatum. a bit of personal experience there: i had a similar status quo going on whereby my being gay was just Not Acknowledged; i always knew this would need to be shattered at some point, and i knew what my position would be, but it's hard to actually do that until forced into it. my parents now know that they either accept and acknowledge it or they will not see me again, and i am 100% prepared to cut them off for good. the ball is in their court.

sometimes i wonder if families are anything more than a crucible for perpetuating bigotry and distorted worldviews

― happy little (clouds), Thursday, November 1, 2012 2:24 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^i feel this

. a status quo of awkwardly not mentioning things is easy but not very satisfactory and more stressful than you think; sometimes you need a catalyst, a bombshell to lay your cards on the table and deliver a needed ultimatum.

That's why I was so relieved! No tears shed. A sort of clarity.

xpost I disagree sharply with that post.

yeah. families are different. sometimes even the same ones at different times.

there also comes an age when you are responsible for your own worldview.

i dunno. i am probably just projecting (even though my family is not an extreme example).

kind of agree w/ marx that at the least, our conception of the family unit would change drastically in an actually equal society.

Maybe Marx was just like his mother. She was never satisfied.

why do we engage ourselves in a master/slave dialectic? / this is what is sounds like when doves cry

Karl?
Yes, Friedrich?
Is the water warm enough?
Yes, Friedrich.
Shall we begin?
Yes, Freidrich.

oh fukkkk it's M's birthday next week, I need to think of a suitable present ://///////

also, he called me a "good eater" last week; I pointed out that, as someone who can't cook, whenever I have a decent meal in front of me I eat the fuck out of it because I generally have no idea when the next one will be

aw geez, alfred, that's rough. you handled it more coolly than i would've tho so kudos

Yes, it bears mentioning that although, or perhaps because, my family is nothing like this, I dunno how I would have handled such a thing.

adding my sympathies to those already offered, alfred. those conversations are so stressful they literally make me sick to my stomach. (i don't deal well with familial confrontation.)

on a somewhat related note: i think we are on track for d. to FINALLY (finally) meet my mom after 5 years. and there is talk of possible inclusion in thanksgiving festivities. i can't help but be nervous about it but i know it's an important and necessary step for all of us to take together. i only regret it hadn't happened sooner.

Oh man I loooove "Free"

why do we engage ourselves in a master/slave dialectic? / this is what is sounds like when doves cry

beep beep beep boop / boop beep beep boop

"Free"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgRBkjgXHro

eric otm

Oh oops that was a Zing glitch

hey i saw 'what ever happened to baby jane?' last night and wow what an unpleasant movie

"He hates me."

http://sanchezdetoro.webcindario.com/JANE7.jpg

xp "How nice for you"

Really though that film's cred rests waaaay too much on the novelty of JOAN + BETTE 2GETHER @ LAST and isn't actually that great of a film. I mean it's pretty fun and campy but so are a lot of other things. Also it's too long.

It is a totally great film and relatively sui generis at the time iirc. It is, admittedly, a tad too long tho, you're right about that.

glad i saw it as some kind of gay rite of passage i guess but i don't think i'd ever want to see it again

yeah it's junk and Victor Buono is awful

Wd say I felt that was about Brokeback Mountain, but that's more of a stuff straight people like rite of passage.

nothing more horrifying than a "restrained" Joan Crawford.

Thinking about Davis and Buono trading underthings, maybe.

i wonder why it's always women who are basically train wrecks that become gay icons (dietrich, garland, et al)

Because men who are train wrecks would cut too close to the bone.

Not a huge fan of Baby Jane, but I've Written a Letter to Daddy always cracks me up just thinking abt it.

Have been wracking my brain trying to think of examples of gay cult movie classics that I don't like, but it turns out I at least like almost all of them. *shrugs*

. a status quo of awkwardly not mentioning things is easy but not very satisfactory and more stressful than you think; sometimes you need a catalyst, a bombshell to lay your cards on the table and deliver a needed ultimatum.

That's why I was so relieved! No tears shed. A sort of clarity.

― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:27 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^ this is a generally true statement about relationships generally not just families (like - i read this while skimming backwards to the beginning of posts I hadn't read and before I saw what it was actually about I identified with it very strongly)

um. most of my family is totally wonderful and all know, but the three remaining 70+ year olds in my mom's family (the elderly egyptian matriarchs/patriarchs) don't know, though their more tolerant/less harsh spouses do. there's an uncomfortable detente where we just kind of dance around the issue when they're around but i don't know what I would do if it ever came to a head. if JF had ended up being around for the next big family event in march, it would have turned into a confrontation, but i've dodged a bullet there. so, yeah, i'm not sure what i would do if the unpleasantness was that close to home i.e. immediate family.

hugs alfred. I think you did what you needed to do, and hopefully he'll come around once reality sets in for him a bit. we care about you!

xp Oh, what's the one I like the best? Oh yeah, "Boom!" That movie is great.

The Apple is the only Al0nso Durald3 approved title that I can think of that I outright hate.

Five years ago I was staying at a gay friend's house while he was away, a cool Londoner, and looking through his DVDs, I said "oh they made a film version of Myra Breckenridge, I didn't know that". I watched it, loved it, thought, "huh! who would've thought that cool book would've made such a great film!" Then I googled it ("worst movie of all time!" etc.) and was confused

whaaAAAAT? xp

i watched part of myra breckenridge while recuperating from oral surgery and kept nodding off from the percocet, it was very confusing to me

i fell asleep watching it. it's a mess but mae west has some good lines

The Apple is anti-disco. Hence, I am anti-The Apple.

sorry, the 'whaaaAAAAT?' was my liz taylor in 'boom' imitation

lol

ha ha I love it so much

i couldn't get through that one. maybe i'll give it another try. i did enjoy john waters on Boom though.

as an aside i once saw rupert everett play the liz taylor part in a stage version of "the milk train..." and he totally played the whole thing to me in the second row of the audience. it was weird but i've seen actors do that before (and worked with them because i sometimes design for the theatre) - they single someone out of the audience and play it to them alone. this was about 15 years ago though.

"shit on your mother, JED_"

aw you guys are great. Radio silence so far, which is fine. I've decided to sever ties unless we move to the negotiating table.

How's your relationship with your mom?

Warmer, although the intimacy b/w Dad and me is a recent phenomenon. The last time I confronted her about The Gay Thing prompted a fumbled boilerplate response ("As you know we don't support it"). But if anyone's going to call in the next 48 hours it's her, and she's gonna get it.