The Biden v. Ryan Debate Thread

weirdly my students were kind of psyched to watch this.

lol

I knew Biden won when all Hannity and McConnell could say about the debate was how mean he had been to Eddie Munster

Kevin Arceneaux and Martin Johnson--oh, they're good (to quote John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever).

A second Greenwald post, about Raddatz's typical MSM-journalist assumptions (Soc Sec & Medicare are going broke). I though thes closing grafs were interesting too:

One more note about Raddatz: near the end of the debate, she asked the two Catholic candidates how their religion influences their views on abortion. This was a reasonable question unto itself, but also reflects standard DC assumptions on these issues.

It is often noted that the Catholic Church stridently opposes reproductive rights. But it is almost never noted that the Church just as stridently opposes US militarism and its economic policies that continuously promote corporate cronyism over the poor. Too much emphasis on that latter fact might imperil the bipartisan commitment to those policies, and so discussion of religious belief is typically confined to the safer arena of social issues. That the Church has for decades denounced the US government's military aggression and its subservience to the wealthiest is almost always excluded from establishment journalistic circles, even as its steadfast opposition to abortion and gay rights is endlessly touted.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/12/raddatz-debate-objectivity

Martha Raddatz's ABC segments are often unwatchable: she so identifies with the military industrial establishment.

if the catholic church wanted to promote its steadfast opposition to military aggression above its views on birth control, it wouldn't need a media mandate

I'm not sure; Obama/Biden's steadfast opposition to Big Bird's death is more media-friendly than their presumed (but nearly silent) opposition to climate catastrophe.

if obama/biden wanted to promote its steadfast opposite to climate catastrophe, it wouldn't need a media mandate

maybe ppl just like sex police more than assistance vs those who will starve or drown them.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/the-vice-presidential-debate-joe-biden-was-right-to-laugh-20121012

Fun with details and some corny jokes

One last thing, did you get this song stuck in your head last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Mse62NFl4

Specifically around the 3:20 mark?

Man is thread quiet today: the opposite of the aftermath of last week's debate.

bucketofwarmpiss-itis

I hope Barry can reach even close to the high bar Joe just set

Obama doesn't do this, ever:

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/10/121011_biden_arms_debate_ap_605.jpg

Wish he would.

Man is thread quiet today: the opposite of the aftermath of last week's debate.

My guess: uncertainty about what's happening. Those (like me) who want Obama to win are experiencing something akin to the horror-film trope where you walk slowly through the empty house, waiting for you're not sure what. (Does not apply to iatee, lagoon, and Shakey Mo Collier.) The few posters who desperately want him to lose are biding their time.

I like that Biden's been so out-and-out disdainful/incredulous, because it gives Obama room to be a 'good cop', with extra zingers. That tumbleweed sound emanating from "independent" trolls eg. my mom was also quite nice today. IMO, independents don't generate right-wing talking points.

Does anyone here actually desperately want him to lose? I thought the Morbius end of the discussion was on some
"They're both as bad as each other!" shit.

was just about to say the same thing.

i srsly doubt that a single non-lurking ilxor is sincerely rooting for romney to win.

Maybe "desperately"'s an overstatement. But I don't think Morbius's indifference to Obama/Romney translates to indifference over who wins--he can speak for himself, but I think he'd get much more enjoyment out of a Romney win because of the fallout on the other side.

Morbz wants Romney to win because he wants things to get so bad America has some collective "scales falling from the eyes" moment

no, too stoopid a fucking country for that

i think there's truth that obama, as a black man, couldn't do the things biden did last night without america losing its shit

yep, though very few people could do what biden did last night. biden's rep as a guy who says inappropriate things and has gaffes and speaks his mind (or whatever the rep is) actually plays to his favor in debates because hey, it's just joe being joe. i don't think anyone expected (or expects) obama to do what biden did last night, they just expect him to not look like he just got in a terrible argument with his wife that involved the smashing of a wedding photo against a wall, and to speak up and make a few good points every once in a while.

Yes. He's got four days to figure out some workable middle ground.

I agree with somebody I read who said the town-hall format will be tough for Obama, or at least tough if you need to push back some. That's where you're supposed to do what Clinton did (so well) in '92, remember questioner's names and get all Oprah when necessary. The first debate was where he had the freedom to play completely to the camera (audience present, but instructed not to react) and be a little more aggressive. Town halls are different.

Of course Obama will do well next debate, just like Biden "won" last night. That's been his "narrative" since 2007: after listless performances, he gets even.

biden's rep as a guy who says inappropriate things and has gaffes and speaks his mind (or whatever the rep is) actually plays to his favor in debates because hey, it's just joe being joe.

ya this is key & i think it applies in general at this point. i wonder if one of the reasons he was picked is because he essentially has carte blanche to say any old shit and everyone just goes "ahh, that joe!"

If we stop watching cable news or reading Nate Silver, it's still amazing how well how predictable this race has been. Obama and Romney are now neck in neck -- same as it ever was in July and August. Obama stank in the first debate, his veep picked up the slack, and will likely rally next time. The horserace part of this shit is so godddamn stupid that it corrupts everyone who follows -- and I don't exclude myself.

it's still amazing how well how predictable this race has been

Could not disagree more with this. I was surprised by Romney's level of ineptitude as a candidate, surprised when Obama began to pull away (without any major changes in economic conditions), and right now I'm baffled by this latest turn of events. I'm surprised by things all the time. You and iatee are not.

well, no, I WAS surprised at how well Obama was polling from the end of August through most of September. I figured it couldn't last because Romney would at some point get the convention bump he didn't get.

btw because of the, well, precarious nature of Florida right now I'm probably going to follow Chomsky's advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN608oCEqqM

I'm surprised when there's something surprising that happens. obama pulled away w/ a good convention bounce and romney had a a good debate from a historical pov but on the whole things are where models were predicting they would be at this point w/ slow positive economic growth. almost nothing else surprising has happened and the polls barely moved for months and in a lot of ways this is about as boring as a close election could get. but if romney pulls ahead I'll be surprised and if obama gets back to where he was I'd be surprised.

at what point was Dole dead in the water? i feel like there's almost always still a lot of suspense and "it can go either way" talk 3-4 weeks before the election.

Nate Silver wasn't around then so nobody knows

Dole was dead in the water in '95.

That and Reagan in '84 were the two least surprising elections of my lifetime.

http://library.law.columbia.edu/urlmirror/CLR/100CLR524/ptpreselec.html

Everyone on twitter seems to be freaking out what do you guys think, did Obama blow this hugely or is this nbd
- A Concerned Canadian
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Wednesday, October 3, 2012 10:53 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nbd
― iatee, Wednesday, October 3, 2012 10:53 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

From there to "I'm surprised when there's something surprising that happens" doesn't quite connect to me.

yeah i was gonna say, clinton and reagan's re-elections seem like the only ones in the last few decades the ball was still in the air pretty close to the end. things weren't too suspenseful by election day on '08 but people were still so bewildered that we were actually going to have a black president that everyone was on the edge of their seats anyway. (xpost)

I still don't think obama blew it hugely, it just pumped up conservatives - the extent that it did was def on the higher end of what people expected possible, but like I said, I don't think that's something that can happen more than once

yeah i was gonna say, clinton and reagan's re-elections seem like the only ones in the last few decades the ball was still in the air pretty close to the end.

wait am I reading this correctly?

er "wasn't" not "was" sorry

I don't think the reason for Romney's big comeback is mainly that he "won" the debate. I think it's more the way that he redefined himself and laid out his agenda in greater detail, aiming straight for the center of the political spectrum. That Obama was stiff and seemed disconnected was just the gravy. Up to the week of the debate, the Romney agenda had been strangely hazy, so the Obama campaign had been able to paint him in the most negative light. His main accomplishment in the debate was not "beating" Obama but redefining himself. At that moment, he suddenly started running the kind of competent, centrist campaign that everyone had been expecting him to run since he clinched the nomination, but that for whatever reason, he had been strangely unwilling or unready to do up till then.

haha it's all good, ship -- I know shit about sports so I thought, "Oh, so THAT's what 'the ball in the air' means..."

lol

i have to say i'm a bit surprised, i figured it would barely make any difference. but there may be a lot of people out there who don't like Obama but didn't trust Romney, and Romney may have given them enough moderate bullshit to seem like someone they could vote for.

i know things about sports and i'm not sure what that
metaphor means

guys can we please not examine too closely whether the random phrase i used is an actual thing people say or whether i used it correctly