Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

I think one of the things I like about Louie is that it sort of has the feel of a comedian trying out new material. It isn't always funny, and sometimes it doesn't work. It isn't carefully diagrammed. A roomful of writers didn't workshop to decide which version of the same joke is the funniest. It's incredibly personal and specific, and that makes it unusual and fearless, but also messy.

I saw him just this past Friday!

i'm going tomorrow, any good?

yeah how was it? i only caught yr pre-show panic
you could maybe speak only in the broad-brush language of enthusiasm or disappointment, what w/us all waiting to catch him

I think my problem is less that it isn't "funny" and more that i find that his self-degradation/victimization/martyrdom less edgy than everyone else and more a sort of humble brag...it always feels like underneath he's saying, "aren't I coming off well?" I can see why he thinks Lena Dunham is so great, she does the same thing...this veneer of warts-and-all self-debasement that is actually kind of a roundabout patting onesself on the back.

i dont think its really about 'i'm bad (but actually im good)'

like the dad episode for instance which just did an amazing end-run around anything you could possibly expect from a 'louie confronts his dad' episode

it seems as if there were fewer and fewer comments here after each week's episode this season, which to me suggests people might feel the same even though they stan just as hard if you dare criticize it. the vociferousness(sp?) and ultra-protectiveness is kinda like the fans of "girls", come to think of it!

There was actually talk of a Girls-Louie crossover episode happening, like the Flinstones-Jetsons. Louie takes his daughters to an XX concert, trying to be a "coo dad," and meets Lena Dunham's character.

the show was...good!

I think my problem is less that it isn't "funny" and more that i find that his self-degradation/victimization/martyrdom less edgy than everyone else and more a sort of humble brag...it always feels like underneath he's saying, "aren't I coming off well?" I can see why he thinks Lena Dunham is so great, she does the same thing...this veneer of warts-and-all self-debasement that is actually kind of a roundabout patting onesself on the back.

the woody allen comparisons just don't stop.

There should be a Louie/Gilligan's Island/Harlem Globetrotters episode. Or a half-animated Scooby Doo crossover. (Thinking ahead to season 15)

the show was...good!

― well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:54 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

PSYCHED

this veneer of warts-and-all self-debasement that is actually kind of a roundabout patting onesself on the back.

ha i don't think we need further interrogation of girls itt but i can't really even see how this is a criticism of that show - like you either think she's unsympathetic & you don't give a shit or you think she's unsympathetic & you relate, but i don't think any of her like, overtly presented personality traits or failings are perceived as secretly awesome

i think sad-sack louie may have been played up this season cuz show actually felt need to address it this season (sad-sack aspect obv there before but not quite such a defining characteristic, sorta relegated to money and love/pussy woes), much more continuity and overall arc than prior seasons and the two big storylines - parker posey and talk show - both about facing paralyzing terror in the face of opportunity (for money and love/pussy lol), finale dealt w/ the crash of both those dreams - talk show and posey dead - and w/ the crippling loneliness louie feels and probably has felt since the divorce, the type of loneliness that leads him to stay in miami longer just cuz he enjoyed hanging out w/ some dude he met. first instinct is to crawl into ball, eat in bed and watch tv, but he's grown enough to snap out of it and decide to spend time w/ his family over the holidays and then to go further and go to china and try to find the yangtze river, something that for the louie presented this season is pretty bold. now whether louie's preference to spend the holidays w/ strangers who speak a language he doesn't over spending time w/ his family is healthy or represents real growth is very debatable and louie has always been willing to seek connections w/ strangers (i know 'lol look at this white guy trying to talk to ppl who aren't even white wtf' is one of the things some morons like to point at as rmde liberal about the show but i really admire and enjoy that usually duck accompanied generous humane curiosity) while having much more trouble maintaining or building connections (unless they're comedians ie as fucked up as he is) but i think there's a change or the possibility of epiphany here, he seems to recognize the fear and determined to face it. now it could end up being nothing - woody allen had his doppelganger have epiphanies all the time and then next movie it's alvy singer back at square one only the name and formal dressing has changed, some real sisyphus shit - or it could end up that louie on the show becomes more like the louis who makes it, the type of guy who could face an offer from a network for a show and counteroffer something like 'louie'. i'm not sure which option i prefer tbh. continuing the woody allen comparisons (and as somewhat unthinkable as something like woody allen in current american movies is, something like woody allen in tv is damn near a miracle) i like to think of curb yr enthusiasm as sleeper (looser and rougher than prior comedies, not quite as big a break w/ what came before as it's heirs but partly cuz it's sole focus is laughs, any innovations are beside the point), louie as annie hall (much much more overt formal daring, more attn to character and moments, willingness to forgo a laff while enough of a standup mentality still existing to devote bits that are entirely setup->joke), girls as hannah and her sisters (previous innovations now status quo, female characters suddenly have agency, laffs are there but not labored over or cherished).

i think reading proust has become a bad influence on your post lengths

neo-ILX posting length, mordy

killer post

the tig notaro thing that louis has been promoting points to louis being interested in uncomfortable situations rather than self-flagellation, it's just that self-flagellation is a means to get there?

The self-deprecation helps deflate criticism that the show, or Louie (or Lena Dunham [or Louie Dunham]) is narcissistic, self-absorbed and too self-conscious. It's a way of saying "I'm aware that I have a problem...now if you'll excuse me," and then doing what you want to do without criticism. You control the debate by pointing out your own flaws, getting that out of the way, and maybe you can distract from other weaknesses by harping on your own smaller ones again and again.

Also many comedians base their entire careers on self-depreciation.

I've known egomaniacs who manipulate people by shrinking, and being coy, and being self-deprecating whenever they think someone might call them out on selfish behavior. It's like a possum playing dead.

*haven't seen Girls or more than one episode of Louie btw, but self-deprecation can be a device hiding wickedness so you all know. xpost

Rodney Dangerfield to thread

charges of narcissism, egomania etc... is a weird criticism to defend against considering the show is named louie.

self deprecation so not what girls is about (cf how louie and lena deal w/ body image), in girls the jokes about hannah's irresponsiblity, fecklessness, narcissism, and spoiled nature are more the wisdom a twentysomething has about a slightly younger twentysomething, usual commenting on personality traits that frankly are the common defining characteristics of a young adult, esp a young adult who fancies him/herself creative. no more self deprecating than (HEY MORDY WATCH THIS) joyce's portrait of the artist as a young man.

like i don't think TNG was motivated to go for human drama because they were defensive about space laser criticism

has anyone seen the tig notaro thing btw? it's been built up so much i'm scared to see it now, feel like i won't be open to it and w/ comedy you usually have to be willing to meet it halfway for it to work.

your parenthetical got me all excited and then 'portrait of the artist?" finnegan's wake or go home.

charges of narcissism, egomania etc... is a weird criticism to defend against considering the show is named louie.

well a little bit of self-awareness goes a long way. you can't call the show, or him, out on self-absorption because the warning label was right there. "You knew this was coming."

There's just that Woody Allen dishonesty, of writing characters as obvious stand-ins but also as satires, depending on whether or not he's being praised or criticized

half of the tig notaro thing is this week's This American Life. It's pretty good. There's an interview with Tig on Fresh AIr about it, and weirdly they interview Louie for about 15 minutes about it as well.

cunga what are you talking about? provide examples

i think there's an episode where louie does a woody allen homage if you're looking for louie/woody comparisons, but this whole "I'm openly putting my identity on this show to pre-empt criticisms of the show being centered around me" is some "I'm dressing like napoleon so people won't think I'm crazy" level of bonkers.

cunga what are you talking about? provide examples

If Woody Allen doing this? Annie Hall or Manhattan but a couple of others. The audience is never sure what to make of the character. If their aspirations and beliefs are a send-up or reflective of the author in a profound way. And the auteurs are intentionally ambivalent about that because it's convenient.

no of louie doing it. woody allen doing it is pretty much standard jewish comedy defense 101.

balls otm w/epic season recap above.

still think the 2nd half of the ep was a dream and confused why anyone thinks otherwise?

The pacing of events point to that but there weren't any clues surreal or otherwise to make it as obvious as you suggest.

The audience is never sure what to make of the character.

I am sure that Woody Allen is playing a character, just like Rodney Dangerfield.

yo clover it is literally only you who thinks that
everyone else is confused why you have invented this perspective

lol srsly. i can believe that there's an interpretation that it was a dream, but such a compelling interpretation that you literally are confused that anyone thinks otherwise??

oh boy china! that's where louis is a viking

Maybe ducks are his totem

that makes sence, louis learned the lesson that you dont have to take your duck with you everywhere, you just have to trust that when you get where you're going in life ppl there already have ducks and you'll be ok.

For some of us, our ducks are our selves.

yeah, it's a conceptual duck.

He does a bit in standup about wild ponys looking cute but biting his daughter. There's certainly some kind of cute animal=hope/expectations/fluffy land where you can finally be happy but it's just out of reach. (in both duck episodes, he ends the episode with no duck, unless that was some tasty chinese duck in plum sauce)

i'll watch it again. but the interp it is a dream is based on the fact that he is feverish and clearly dreaming early on, and then increasingly surreal things happen with a very strange flow of time, all of which are things that would be invented from a feverish unconscious sleeping fitfully. like seriously who goes to china and then just asks random ppl how to find a river? this does not happen. there are maps, and books, and people who speak english about.

basically all the cinematic cues I saw were "we're filming a dream" cues as well, in terms of exactly how the cuts are done, how the sound is mixed, etc.

a quick google reveals lots of people saying "it couldn't have all been a dream" because he didn't wake up at the end, which is so totally literalist to me. like why can't it end still in a dream? it feels allegorical and dreamlike, so that's what it is. the "text" is just the way he cut those images together -- it's not like we need to play inception here or something.

I don't feel like it was a dream because I don't feel like that interpretation fits with the themes of the season. It's a reasonable analysis of the episode taken on its own, but not of the larger arcs of the narrative imo.

Figuring out whether something was real or a dream sequence seems like an awfully frustrating exercise when considering a pretty surreal show that's unconcerned with continuity.

i bought the tig notaro standup. it was worth five bucks.