C/D LENA DUNHAM (THE DEFINITIVE POLL)

i liked how the all the @ replies to that tweet were white people saying "spot on!"

in a shocking development, also in agreement was that one woman who tweeted a while back that she wanted a miniature le1f to dance for her on her desk all day

like, i am at the TORY BLOODY CONFERENCE right now and nothing i have come into contact with here has been as straight-up offensive as eve barlow

the most hilarious thing about that post is that she starts off with an extended riff of the same tone of that infamous lesley arfin tweet which is just like, wow, once again, if you're a white person and you can't enter a conversation about race w/o assuming a sneering aggravation you should probably sit down and think about things a little harder

But we seem to have an echo chamber effect where people have decided that she's racist on a bad reading of Girls (which is not just SHE'S WHITE WHAT OF IT like that terrible defence you posted, but is much more aware of the narcissistically self-enclosed milieu it's representing than any of the criticisms are willing to accept), and everything she does gets caught up in that.

to be fair the charges of racism are based more on stuff like her and her writers' responses to criticisms of girls than they are based on readings of girls itself.

but you bring up something that kind of bugs me, viz the way girls defenders (and i am one, generally) handwave away the problematics of race and class &c. with "well its self aware." because, like, yeah, but... so?

self-awareness as pre-emptive defence for knowingly doing or saying a shitty thing is s0 old

i think the self-awareness thing is sometimes germane in conversations about Girls since the characters in the show, especially Dunham's, are often unsympathetic and unlikable or a vessel for satire, but people talk about the show like it's this unapologetic celebration of self. doesn't hold up as much w/r/t what we're talking about, i'm just saying.

it's funny to see this stuff flare up again now, though, i was hoping nobody would feel like talking about this show again until the second season started or at least when it comes out on dvd

incidentally "well its self aware" is also the defense for aesthetic critiques as well

xp, some dude seems to be saying something similar

i think its mostly a pretty well-written and quite beautifully shot show. that being said tiny furniture imo was much better a movie than girls is a TV show

also in the context of the kyriarchy i cant possible answer this question definitively

i love you lagoon but don't keep pummeling this how dare they speak of it in hallowed tones angle itt; it is too cynical to scoff at anyone thinking that comedy could possibly be important/art/significant/&c. i totally think LD's stuff is important. think about how profoundly & permeatingly Friends defined stuff & controlled the lens for relationships & shit for a whole bunch of people; having something remotely thoughtful on tv is a real big thing.

― unprotectable tweetz (schlump), Monday, October 8, 2012 12:57 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i love you too but imho generally comedy can be important but it shouldnt take itself seriously, and it shouldnt take other things seriously either, and more specifically i find this thing where were suposed to think these shows abt sad sack comedians are saying something super deep abt life highly dubious, im mean congrats and all louie ck your show is v good and you are a depressed self involved guy, but its not really super insightful re the human condition, and girls is way less so

the show grew on me by the middle of the season, but some of that goodwill eroded by the end

also now before every HBO show when they do their little network promo with a quick montage of shots from different HBO series, THIS is the scene they use to represent Girls:

http://cdn.stereogum.com/files/2012/06/lena-beyonce.jpg

and - i'm not commenting on the show, because i haven't seen it, though i don't think it's inherently problematic if an individual writer doesn't include ~token minorities~ - the stuff lena dunham has come out with aside from that is a...pattern. there are more questionable public examples than most people manage ever.

― lex pretend, Monday, October 8, 2012 2:18 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya its an industry wide thing for sure, the reason dunham is getting such shit is because she chose to place her show in the milieu most writers inhabit

'self-aware' is the new 'I was being *ironic*'...Dunham is weird to watch because I'm 20 years out of uni with trusta/intelligentsia spawn types just like her and you'd think some of the representation issues would have moved the fuck on. OTOH the fact that on TV, they haven't, should tell us a lot about the negative changes in social mobility WRT creative/artistic types over the past 20 years.

Eve Barlow is the new deputy editor of NME. That tumblr rant was the howl of a spoilt child IMO.

I've always given [name of writer redacted] benefit of the doubt for the gaps in her education and props for 'overcoming' impoverished origins but there comes a time in every feminist-identifying woman's life when women ten years younger than you show up to say feminism's moved on from the point at which you discovered it. The important thing, when on the end of these observations, is not to be the current incarnation of that dismissive person who dismissed *your* concerns when *you* were trying to widen mainstream feminism's net. This is the big fail here.

most of the hate comes from people who are basically saying "hey i resemble your bullshit"

i think it's only after that crime people care about the fact that someone is the daughter of bad company's drummer

The Girls thread suggests otherwise, with 500 posts before the first episode aired.

the reason dunham is getting such shit is because she chose to place her show in the milieu most writers inhabit

Also she is a young female producer/writer/director who named her show girls = still painting an enormous bullseye on yourself.

well yeah, that bullseye was in part people realizing she was living their social media savvy dream

Some people very outspokenly love the show and Dunham, so people who dislike it (or are otherwise indifferent about it) are going to feel compelled to explain why. Out of all the times I've complained about the awfulness of Animal Collective no one has ever accused me of jealously, or prejudice.

that's too bad

mordy would you deny either that the narcissism of small differences is in play in a lot of the girls-hate, or that america has tendency to get more outraged when a woman does something offensive that men have done for years

you don't have to make this a "harumph well i sir am not misogynist nor am i a hipster in a creative field my lord" thing if you don't want to

most of the hate comes from people who are basically saying "hey i resemble your bullshit"

― da croupier, Monday, October 8, 2012 10:09 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so does most of the love tbf

I should listen to more Bad Company

I think we examine privilege and heredity a lot more *right now* because social mobility has lessened so obviously and sharply. 'What's your name?/Who's your daddy?' only becomes an issue when resources and opportunities become less available to equally able people from different backgrounds.

hmmm

mordy would you deny either that the narcissism of small differences is in play in a lot of the girls-hate, or that america has tendency to get more outraged when a woman does something offensive that men have done for years

I think that Dunham's work means a lot to some people and those people understandably want to defend the object d'art that they love against criticism. Some of that criticism (like the Gawker recaps) certainly seems sexist and misanthropic. Much of it does not. Speculating as to the psychological motives of people critiquing a work of art seems like a dead end generally though, not quite productive discursively.

yes when people are being sexist and misanthropic it's important to rise above and not suggest the reasons they might be fixated on this particular show

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/lena-dunham-sings-book-deal-for-more-than-3-5-million/

this has got to be the largest tumblr book deal in history right?

More The New Yorker than Tumblr that sealed it, I think.

Yeah her NYer thing about real-life Elijah was good. Also she was profiled in Talk of the Town a couple years ago in connection with Tiny Furniture.

http://i.imgur.com/rdTNQ.png

any excuse to shame white people for being white

please refer to all whites as dunhams

i almost got to the end to that piece and had to stop. i dunno how she can be embarrassed about her mom referencing Lost In Translation constantly while in Tokyo but not be embarrassed about mentioning it 50 times when writing about the trip herself.

please refer to all whites as dunhams

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, October 8, 2012 3:02 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is so unfair, and on our special day too *dances to robyn*

I got that Bobby by the pound
Lena Dunham by the key
New Yorker think piece
the game belong to me

lol

how would you guys compare the reception of lena dunham vs the creator of that zooey show?

in terms of drowning?

Lena Dunham vs. Amanda Palmer

well, Dunham wouldn't be getting nearly as much attention if she wasn't also the star of her show. New Girl occasioned a LOT of chatter about Zooey Deschanel and what we think of her and what her success means etc etc but not so much for Elizabeth Meriwether, who's mainly just the woman who created the Zooey show. (xpost)

do you think zooey was a kind of hate magnet that allowed merriwether to escape that kind of scrutiny?

well, people had problems with Zooey more than the show itself, which actually won over a fair number of Zooey skeptics (including me)

Only New Girl episode I saw had Zooey's black friend getting an earring and Zooey calling him "Black Jack Sparrow" and "Black George Michael."

would it make sense to say that being represented by people who project a certain amount of oblivious privilege like zooey and dunham is what is offending people? like maybe a mormon kid's reaction to seeing romney in the news?

PROGRESS

Cece comes to the bar dressed in a beenie and big sweater: Jess: Why's she dressed like a womens studies major?

Jess: Hey guys, you remember Paul Schmidt: Mercedes Gens!! Winston: Genzel Washington! Schmidt: It's the gens of the world as we know it Winston: All right everybody put down your gens and your gencils Paul: Hey Schmidt...uh hey Washington

Schmidt: You backslid all the way down the hill and back into the parking lot. Take off your skis and wait for your family in the lodge Jessica Day.

On Winstons new earring: Jess: Take it easy black George Michael Schmidt: You look like you were standing in line to a Shaquille O'Neal birthday party

and "Black DJP" (xpost0