recommend me some essential graphic novels to acquire

I think he meant like "for girls comics,"

reminds me of Steve Martin's line about "cigarettes for women"

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.urbanhonking.com/greatestband/archives/SteveMartin.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.urbanhonking.com/greatestband/archives/2005/09/funny_comedy_ga.html&h=371&w=200&sz=12&hl=en&start=1&sig2=hFQQLsaSY0maYtmbFwooQw&tbnid=tJy0Y1HhV20FcM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=66&ei=1PUPR4HiKoPegQOCxfXJCQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSteve%2BMartin%2Bsmoking%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG
"what, do they have little breasts on them or something?"

http://www.urbanhonking.com/greatestband/archives/SteveMartin.jpg

Girly comics: Elfquest, a lot of manga (especially romantic and fantasy manga), Tank Girl, Sandman, other high fantasy stuff. This doesn't mean that the these comic would be bad, but they seem to be the sort of of stuff girls who are not that heavily into comics pick up. Of course you shouldn't always make stereotypical assumptions: back in the nineties this female friend of mine who hadn't read much comics fell totally in love with Preacher when I introduced it to her.

And even though it's not a masterpiece or anything, I'd still recommend Preacher today. Despite the sometimes all-too-obvious sexist macho posturing and homophobia, most of the times it's hell of a fun read. And it contains one of the best goth disses ever made.

my friend is having lunch with joe matt tomorrow!

ok, so my friend spent practically the whole day with joe matt and his friend, took him and the guy from the eels to adrian tomine's wedding AND got mr matt to sign and illustrate one of his books for me - a huge full page illustration!!

!!!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2228/1563900391_45bd74fe8b.jpg

awes

Graphic novels I have read (a few entirely on the recommendation of this thread):

Maus I and II
Persepolis I
Fun Home
a few American Splendor collections

I have loved them all, and Jimmy Corrigan is coming in the mail. I think I'm ready to move away from the autobiography type graphic novel now, though. Any additional good advice?

I might have said this on an ILC thread, but I think "Strangers in Paradise" is literally the worst thing I've ever read. Like, it made me really angry. It's like an infinitely dumber version of "Love and Rockets."

yah its terrible

I fall somewhere between Aldo and Kit on ALICE IN SUNDERLAND - agree that the multiple narrators device is v. lame, much of the bk is more like an illustrated lecture than a comic strip (tho' the E.C. parody is amongst the weakest segements and, sad to say, the Baxendale page is woeful also) and the conclusion abt cultural diversity and whatnot is gobsmackingly obvious and banal. But - I thought many of the connections made were impressive, I enjoyed the mad scope of the book, learned a great deal of English social and cultural history, and, most of all, the stuff abt Carroll and Alice was fascinating and touching. In many ways I think there was a better, more interesting strip struggling to escape from this baggy monster - def. NOT a good GN for beginners, tho

The recent Moebius documentary screened on BBC4 reminded me that Jodorowsky and Moebius' INCAL series is still relatively easy to get hold of as two translated volumes from DC - visionary, hallucinatory SF at its finest

Q: If you really really like Daniel Clowes but know almost nothing about Graphic Novels or comics aside from quite enjoying Black Hole but thinking it should be funnier, what do you read next?

A: Try the MISERY LOVES COMEDY h/c from Fantagraphics that collects the first three issues of Schizo by Ivan Brunetti - funnier than BLACK HOLE, blacker than a black hole

I'd also suggest Peter Bagge's HATE series, starting with "The Bradleys" (which was actually published in Neat Stuff rather than HATE) then "Buddy Does Seattle" (The first half of the HATE run proper - all the B&W stuff set in duh, Seattle" but when you move to the second half of the Hate run, you'll have to choose between "Buddy does Jersey" (which reprints the color run in b&w) and the three volumes "Buddy Goes Home" "Buddy's Got Three Moms" and "Buddy Bites The Bullet" - which will triple the expense, but reprint the originally published color art.

That is, if I'm reading the Amazon listings correctly. I've only read that stuff in floppies.

Oh, I think I will like the Ivan Brunetti thing as I think I recognise the artwork from Kierkegaard and Satie parodies I saw in McSweeney's.

Q: If you really really like Daniel Clowes but know almost nothing about Graphic Novels or comics aside from quite enjoying Black Hole but thinking it should be funnier, what do you read next?

It's a Good Life if You Don't Weaken by Seth I think is thematically similar to many of Clowes' work (nostalgia for something that might've never even existed, distance between people, etc), but it's more low-key and realistic. You might also check I Never Liked You by Chester Brown. And if you like slice-of-]ife urban French stories peppered with surrealism and humour, I can't recommend Monsieur Jean by Dubuy and Berberian enough. It's a wonderful read, more optimistic and less self-obsessed than many other similar comics.

"girly comics" - comics about shopping for shoes and losing weight and that thing she said about my her friend's boyfriend k?

actually, I kinda liked those Daniel Clowes comics and they are largely based on relationships and dialog so go figure. I don't think I would like Can't Get Know by Rick Veitch because the first ten page previews I read online were pages of a book I don't want to read. So when I said "girly comics" I had no clue really. I just don't want superhero books.

Can't Get No*

HATE is all about relationships and dialog. And wildly distorted anger faces.

Alice in Sunderland arrived. Will have a quick read this evening, first impressions aren't wholly positive I'm afraid but that's due to cover and my own superficiality!

HATE is great

that Joe Matt sketch is teh lolz

H8 is one of the most funniest and best-drawned things ever. I think the art's great anyway, my boyfriend thinks it's so ugly he can't even look at it.

It took me a while to get used to Bagge's cartoon exaggeration, but yeah his art is pretty awesome.

I'm still in the market for graphic novels. Someone told me:

Watchmen = win.
That said, try Black Hole - it's self contained, beautiful, and weird.
Transmetropolitan is sheer win.
So is Planetary.
The Filth will break your head in such a lovely way.
That's it for now.

agree? (so far Watchmen is the only guaranteed purchase. I think I'm leaning towards Scott McCloud's 10 Essential American Comics for the graphic novel nub like myself - I've read some Clowes, Maus, and Jimmy Corrigan and I'm looking for comics the sort of revolutionize the medium by either awesome art technique (Chris Ware), or a detailed account of an interesting story (Maus), or a fine understanding of human intricacies, emotions, and subtleties.(Clowes))

also Preacher and Fables were suggested... agree?

not yet for you.

Would not suggest Preacher unless you like EXTREMOVIOLENCE and a kind of twisted sense of 'morality'. It has a pretty great, dark sense of humor in some scenes (and with some characters tbh, but it's eventually gets pretty grating.

I just picked up Jason Lutes' Berlin: City of Stones, Vol. 1, which compiles the first 8 issues and was published in 2000. Luckily, the second volume (issues 9-16, I assume) comes out tomorrow, and then I suppose there will likely be another 8 year wait for the third and final volume to come out. Historical fiction set in Berlin from 1928-1933. I'm only a few issues into the first volume, but I'm enjoying it. Anyone else read it, following it, etc?

revolutionize the medium by either awesome art technique (Chris Ware)

lolololol the idea that Chris Ware "revolutionized" the medium by basically meticulously aping outmoded commercial art styles is ludicrous

Why? Seems to me he kinda did.

he aped it but used it in the context of some very new and avant structures and techniques...even though much of it can be traced back to that one Richard Mguire piece from volume 2 of RAW.

how has the medium changed as a result of Ware's work? Did you see a rash of comics artists using techniques/styles that he specialized in following his appearance on the scene? Are comics now produced in a different way, post-Ware? Is the standard content and narrative structure of comics different, post-Ware?

Don't get me wrong, I like him, but the dude is like the EXACT OPPOSITE of revolutionary, he is completely and utterly devoted to graphic design styles mastered by preior generations.

(also note original post is about his "revolutionary" ART TECHNIQUE not the juxtaposition of said art technique with fairly standard po-mo, self-awarene/ironic narratives)

self-aWARE

Ware's revolutionary quality (if you grant him that) has more to do with how he uses and reconfigures his influences than with anything he ex nihilo invented.

even though much of it can be traced back to that one Richard Mguire piece from volume 2 of RAW.

I was thinking more of Spiegelman's Midget Detective strip in one of those early RAW issues but yeah that too

x-post

(also note original post is about his "revolutionary" ART TECHNIQUE not the juxtaposition of said art technique with fairly standard po-mo, self-awarene/ironic narratives)

Fair enough, though I got what Captain Lorax (or at least McCloud) meant. Still,

he is completely and utterly devoted to graphic design styles mastered by preior generations.

simplifies what the guy does in a *major* way

Here (amazing McGuire piece) and Midget Detective probably had an impact Ware, but his work isn't entirely subordinate to his influences. I'm not the biggest Ware defender, but writing him off as a magpie seems unfair.

OMG ZS that is the best news I've heard in forever, about the second volume of Berlin! That's one of my FAVORITES. I want to read Jar of Fools pretty bad.

I was looking at my issue of a comic book abt the Melvins and Jason Lutes had worked on it. !!!

I know this is cred-free here, but are the 'Lucifer' comics (offshoot of Sandman, but no Gaiman) worth reading? My library has all of them.

Yep, Amazon has it (Berlin, Vol. 2) listed for a Aug. 19th release, for $13.57! I was going to ask about Jar of Fools, too.

**Neophyte Alert**

I just got into the genre not too long ago (see dumb posts above), and so far I've mainly stuck with recommendations and "classics" before I dive into contemporary works in progress. So I'm kinda stoked to finish up Vol. 1, catch up with the newly released Vol. 2, and then read the issues of what will eventually be Vol. 3 as they come out serially. This is a big moment for me.

I've got most of the Berlin issues floating around somewhere, but haven't read them as I want to read the whole thing in one go. Of course, it will take FUCKING YEARS before they're all out. Sigh.

I've read Jar of Fools, but not for a while. The guy can draw like a motherfucker, and JoF was pretty OK, but what I've read of Berlin (I think the first 10 or 12 or so) were really kicking its ass.

Yes, Lucifer is worth reading, Abbott. It is Big, and it's about Lucifer creating a new world free of G_d's influence and hijinks that ensue. It is not nearly as highfalutin' and serious as it might sound but it is still Vertigo.

Love some hijinks!

I can't believe I've been here longer than 10 months