One of the best reasons imho is to debunk the notion that religion alone is the cause of humanity's more annoying habits.
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Monday, 24 September 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno about Beatles but ICP are definitely worrisome.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
ILX over the years has made me realize that my hardened atheistic stance wasn't really tenable but it has also made me realize how indifferent I usually am to metaphysics in general. Someone asked me the other day if I was an atheist or an agnostic and I replied, "Yes."
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Monday, 24 September 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
^ So you're an agnostic atheist?
― jim, Monday, 24 September 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
pretty sad that posting about atheism on an internet forum devoted to atheism is what passes for being "militant" these days.
― wk, Monday, 24 September 2012 18:46 (eleven years ago) link
i get the sense atheism is incompatible with evangelism, hence the preponderance of atheists in religions that don't recruit.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
i mean how do you hook someone in? "Have you heard the non-news about the Lord? Come to our group where uh... we can play atheist backgammon."
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
i've met a number of atheists in my life who have tried to proselytize to me. they're not good at it, but they try.
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
what was their draw, though? atheist tupperware?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 18:59 (eleven years ago) link
i guess they offer the good feeling of being smarter than most other humans. if you already feel that way tho, there is admittedly not much there for the discriminating consumer.
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:00 (eleven years ago) link
that's literally all they offered you? smugness? not even a darwin fish bumper sticker?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
that's all they offered me. i mean, what else do atheists have? the truth? ha.
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
atheists really need to develop an enticing cuisine.christian bbq - YUMbuddhist thai brunch - YUMsecular humanist clam bake - YUK
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
You hurt delicious clam bake's feelings. ;__;
― purveyor of generations (in orbit), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
why does it have to be a clam bake? was elvis presley some kind-of spiritual father of secular humanism?
― Spectrum, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
Unitarians iirc
― purveyor of generations (in orbit), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
people get mad about chik fil-a but no way am i eating at Agnostic Nuggets.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
when people do shit like this http://www.gardenvisit.com/assets/madge/mao_zedong_tiananmen/600x/mao_zedong_tiananmen_600x.jpgit's hard not to draw comparisons to religions. but that's a seperate argument to whether "religion" (however broadly you want to define it) is the root of all evil.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
what does it even mean that religion is the root of all evil? religions are just human constructs. really it's just a cute way of saying that human constructs are the root of all evil?
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
things human do are the root of evil. okay! might as well say that satan is the root of evil in terms of how useful that argument is.
also i thought evil doesn't exist bc all actions have chemical, behavioral, socio-political, psychological sources. saying that religion is the root of all evil embraces the central claim of religion ie: that there is such a thing as evil.
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
Is that really the central claim of "religion?"
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
Also I'm pretty sure that saying that if something has a discernible (or even a non-discernible but infer-able) natural cause it has no moral valence is a false dichotomy but I realize I'm probably in over my head here.
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
in a way i feel that's right -- you can't get people to do things in a coordinated fashion without a religious mandate -- or at least it's really fucken hard. so insofar that any mass activity is evil, you can't do it without religion.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
well, obv not since i don't believe the stuff that falls under the term 'religion' can be said to share anything in common. but it is certainly a central feature of abrahamic religions xxp
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
how do u reconcile a natural cause w/ moral valence?
if you can answer that you will help me greatly
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
you can't get people to do things in a coordinated fashion without a religious mandate
how do you explain motor vehicle traffic?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
I suppose that depends on where one thinks morality originates from, doesn't it?
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
morality suggests free choice that is incompatibility w/ material explanations afaict
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
incompatible* i mean
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
eh I don't think that's true, but I would need to hit way above my weight class to argue it effectively, so I'll just leave it at that.
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
but I don't think "materialism" = "determinism"
w/out hearing your argument i'm going to speculatively posit that your belief that morality + materialism are compatible is probably the lacuna in which your atheism breaks down + you believe in GOD.
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
"how do you explain motor vehicle traffic?"faith and threat of biblical violence
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
well done
― cake-like Lady Gaga (DJP), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
Knock yourself out! xxp
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
http://biblicalproof.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/its-gods-way-or-the-highway.jpg
― Evan, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
ok now ur gettin ur troll on
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
i would like to point out the cute reversal where the atheist is backing out of the argument w/ the theist. i don't think it means anything, but i often read arguments between dumbass religious believers and atheists where the atheist runs circles around them and i always wish that someone smart - like a theologian - was on the other side of the discussion.
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
in any case, the quality of the arguer shouldn't impact the inherent argument so it doesn't really matter
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
Highways seem like an attractive choice. They let you travel smoothly and quickly to many wonderful places.
― Aimless, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
au contraire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7-h4r3d27A
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
sorry to let you down though, Mordy
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
not the first time!
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:50 (eleven years ago) link
There was an interesting bit on Planet Money about tithing among Mormons and tax collection, and while they don't advocate we switch over public fund collections to tithing, it was interesting how people tended to volunteer more money than they needed to as a tithe. It's hard not to see America as a theocracy to be a vastly more efficient enterprise.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
However will I live with myself?
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe pray to GOD?
― Mordy, Monday, 24 September 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
Don't hold your breath.
No, on second thought, hold your breath.
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
Can somebody just spam this thread with a bunch of existentialists already? They're not all atheists fwiw.
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
What if I can't pray to God, Mordy?
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Monday, 24 September 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link