Symmetry required it: 2012 american general election thread #2

yeah I kind of don't count giving to religious institutions as "charity", particularly when those religious institutions are money-grubbing rightwing asshole-machines

like if he donated that money to a foodbank, that's a different matter. But Mormon church has never been big on the "feed the poor/clothe the needy" aspect of Xtianity afiact

and fuck his 'charity' - its mormon tithing..

fuck it in its face. mormon church spent an est. 22 million supporting Prop 8. how many of those millions were Romeny's?

if I give Fred Phelps a bunch of money is that "charity"? serious question

they have tax exempt status, yeah?

Over the entire 20-year period, the Romneys gave to charity an average of 13.45% of their adjusted gross income.

if this is all going to the mormon church that may well be one reason we're getting a summary

it could be that mormon tithing works different than tithing in other religions w/ charity components in which case i withdraw my objection

(tbf from what i understand the moron church does do some actual feeding, clothing & sheltering folks, so yes, some of that money i would consider "charity")

lol "moron"

The LDS Church considers humanitarian work to be an essential part of its mission to bless all humanity in emulation of Jesus Christ “who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed” (Acts10:38). Throughout its history, the LDS Church has always provided for those in need and is perhaps best known for its efforts to take care of its own

as I suspected, sounds like a lot of horseshit. some religious institutions are better at this charity stuff than others.

is it charity when you're expected to pay it and suffer social repercussions when you don't? that sounds more like a gym membership

i think so - yes

These dead Jews aren't gonna get baptized for free

^^^legendary Romney/Streets collab

again, i don't know how the mormon church apportions charitable donations or how tithing works in the church. they might be an exception. in general tho i don't think feeling socially compelled to give charity minimizes the value of said charity - it certainly doesn't matter to a hungry person whether you had the right thoughts when you gave him bread.

^^^runs counter to my understanding of the hierarchy of mitzvot iirc

(which I'm sure you're more familiar with than I am)

I'll kick Romney for giving alms to Prop 8 and the like but I'm not going to be particularly censorious about his almsgiving (thithing, strictly speaking is donating 10% to charity). It's afree country and it's not a bad practice. The whole "I didn't pay a penny more than I had to" plus the "we gave less in charity one year so as not to pay a certain percentage less tax" shows that he's every bit as much a weasel as he's portrayed.

er tzedakah fuck gettin my hebrew mixed up

xp

thinking of Maimonides "Eight Levels of Giving" I guess

I just read on the screen in the elevator that Romney and Ryan are in excellent health, though Romney apparently has an enlarged prostate. I think I need a drink now.

is it charity when you're expected to pay it and suffer social repercussions when you don't? that sounds more like a gym membership

― NASCAR, surfing, raising chickens, owning land (zachlyon), Friday, September 21, 2012

eureka! ILX has made me rich at last! totally starting some sort of body-as-temple/muscular christianity/yoga cult that's basically a wink-wink fancy gym u can write off yr taxes.

there's a hierarchy of charity acc to Maimonides, but intention plays a very minimal role in it. it's more about how it's done (aka giving someone a gift or loan to get them on their feet is highest level, then giving without the recipient knowing who gave and giver not knowing who received, then giving without the recipient knowing who gave, etc etc)

Mormon church has gotta pay for all their little dudes go into the world and recruit somehow

If I were Mormon, I'd like the idea of my money going to towering charity castles.

Driving in to DC often as a kid, my parents would always say the big temple there was Disneyworld. Oh, those jokers ...

I get that Shakey, you and Mordy are Jews but is it exactly right to judge Mittens on the basis of your religion? Mordy's right. I don't care what he thinks while he's paying money to a soup kitchen or a shelter. I do care when he meddles in my State's affairs to limit other ppl's rights and dignity, though.

I dig Maimonides, though.

Mormon church has gotta pay for all their little dudes go into the world and recruit somehow

All Mormon missionaries serve voluntarily, not receiving any salary from the church for their work, typically supporting themselves financially or through assistance from family and other church members. Many young LDS members save money during their teenage years to afford missionary expenses when they are so called to serve.

my comment was less about judging mittens and more about wondering how Mordy appraises charity (I don't care *why* anyone gives to charity myself - altho Mitt's "gotta keep my tax rate above 13%" reasoning is pretty lol - it's more that I don't like the institution he was most likely donating to. because I am an anti-Mormon Church bigot, for the most part)

typically supporting themselves financially or through assistance from family and other church members

yeah guys didn't you read about the hotel Mitt had to stay in in Paris in '68

Mormon missionaries have EARNED everything themselves. They're not TAKERS like some sorts of people who I won't mention but HINT they might have dark skin.

in general tho i don't think feeling socially compelled to give charity minimizes the value of said charity

I don't think it minimizes the value of said charity but it's a little gouache (particularly in this context) to make a big show of how giving you are when the alternative is ostracization from your community.

Oh Jesus! Mitt was in Paris in '68?! It is seriously to laugh...

gouache

(sorry for cheap zing) A watercolor?

Oh Jesus! Mitt was in Paris in '68?! It is seriously to laugh...

I know right? fell out of my chair when I heard this

i do think it's gauche to brag about charitable acts in general, but i don't have a problem w/ someone giving bc they feel socially pressured

Although he spent time in other French cities, for most of 1968, Mr Romney lived in the Mission Home, a 19th century neoclassical building in the French capital’s chic 16th arrondissement. “It was a house built by and for rich people,” said Richard Anderson, the son of the mission president at the time of Mr Romney’s stay. “I would describe it as a palace”.

Yes, gauche. G-d autocorrect grumble grumble...

"Assez des actes, du fric!"

Old Lunch, we should really bury the right/dextrous - gauche/sinister binary and come up with a bunch of epithets based on art techniques.

"My God! She's so gesso!"

Though I guess pastel already applies

Catching up, as I have been all week...I take it there's nothing especially noteworthy about whatever returns Romney released today. (I wonder if things have gotten to the point where trying to sneak something through on a Friday afternoon attracts attention more than deflects it. I'm sure the campaigns have conducted extensive research into this.)

I would imagine most of tithing goes for welfare (lol) for down and out mormons and buying all that fucking land the church owns all over the place.

religious institutions certainly imho stretch the popular definition of charity, theyre usually more like clubs serving their members regardless of need, rather than helping those in need particularly, i realize people have said basically this itt, im just adding an amen

educational institutions too fwiw

anyway i question their worthiness of tax exempt status

so instead of just not releasing the information - information at which point only harry reid was screaming loudly for - they decided to release the info despite the fact that he was stuck in a "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" on his tax credits, either deferring them (despite claiming he shouldn't be president if he'd ever defer a tax credit) or taking them, which would make his tax rate even lower than the damn low rate he already claimed to have.

it's just insane.

and they didn't even release enough information to shut up harry reid anyway

when harry ried is just fucking w/you in the first place youre not going to get him to stop via partial capitulation

Nate Silver ‏@fivethirtyeight
We've been publishing our forecasts since June. The ONLY two states where the favorite has switched at any point are OH and FL.

they are kinda fucking themselves anyway, you can't have it both ways & affect a 'oh taxes who cares' attitude on one hand, then try to piecemeal placate yr critics on the other - okay how about if we show you THIS corner of his tax return. it's acknowledging people give a shit, which contradicts the idea that people shouldn't give a shit.