Come anticipate David Fincher's "Zodiac"

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time out new york gave this six out of six stars. i'm pretty stoked. (i mean, that isn't the reason why, but that just kinda fueled my already-existent total enthusiasm for this movie)

― impudent harlot, Thursday, 1 March 2007 05:16 (nineteen years ago)

i am excited about this. i love fincher. and it seems like even reviewers who have given him bad reviews in the past have done so somewhat grudgingly, understanding that he's an incredibly talented director but one who doesn't always make very good movies, and with this movie they've found something solidly plotted enough that they didn't have to slog through a lot of filmic vocabulary to praise it.

― kenan, Thursday, 1 March 2007 06:21 (nineteen years ago)

calling the plotting "solid" is a bit misleading. it's a very twisty labyrinthine movie with lots of red herrings and LOTS left unexplained and no real payoff. some people will probably find it unsatisfying. i think it's awesome.

visually it's unbelievable. one of the best-looking movies i've seen in a really long time. when fincher turns his visual chops to pure period stuff he's incredible. it's especially impressive to see the art direction & visuals slowly change over the several decades the movie takes place. san fran hasn't look this good since vertigo.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 06:26 (nineteen years ago)

i am creaming for the visuals already. i KNOW what he can do, and that's the main reason i keep wanting another fincher movie. they look SO. FUCKING. GOOD.

― kenan, Thursday, 1 March 2007 06:33 (nineteen years ago)

Ebert: "Alien 3 is the best-looking bad movie I have ever seen."

― kenan, Thursday, 1 March 2007 06:35 (nineteen years ago)

from what i understand this is the first hi-def hollywood big budget movie that's all video. and it just kills.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 06:47 (nineteen years ago)

plz to make george lucas go eat a monkey's butt k thx

― kenan, Thursday, 1 March 2007 06:55 (nineteen years ago)

oh wait i'm wrong. it's the first h'wood movie not to shoot to film or tape.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 07:10 (nineteen years ago)

and i can't make him do anything he wouldn't actually do when he's not hypnotized.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 07:10 (nineteen years ago)

maybe if we put our collective psychic powers together we can make him grow a chin,

― kenan, Thursday, 1 March 2007 07:14 (nineteen years ago)

smoke some more pot kenan

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 07:15 (nineteen years ago)

hey, it don't take drugs to start wishing that george lucas had a chin. that poor bastard. it's sad, really.

― kenan, Thursday, 1 March 2007 07:22 (nineteen years ago)

time out new york gave this six out of six stars.

This is generally not a good sign (nor is using a 6-star scale, wtf).

Mark Ruffalo calls Jake's NY Times complaints "weird sour grapes":

http://www.thereeler.com/premieres_events/finchers_going_to_eat_you_for_breakfast.php

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 1 March 2007 14:40 (nineteen years ago)

So how IS Jake's perf?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 1 March 2007 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

i thought he was great!

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

His sideburns and hair are way too perfect for the seventies, though...

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 1 March 2007 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

...

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

Fincher Hater for Eternity Armond labels it a remake of the "stultifying" All the President's Men, and finds JG and MR to be "nerdy, soft-voiced males."

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 1 March 2007 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

"soft voiced" = "femmy"

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:04 (nineteen years ago)

I had no idea the Kubrick-Fincher analogies existed. I've never seen them. But there hasn't been a Fincher film that hasn't bored me or grossed me out after 20 minutes anyway.

But: The Smiths’ haunting “Suffer Little Children” – that maudlin piece of crap?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

the kubrick thing in zodiac is pretty hard to miss.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:08 (nineteen years ago)

He uses tracking shots?

Since I am a paranoid whiteboy I guess that's why Se7en and Fight Club mostly work splendidly for me (The Game and Panic Room were disposable crap).

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

the movie has a very kubricky structure.

you should see this morbius. you might like it.

(for the record i thought the game and panic room were disposable but fun)

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:18 (nineteen years ago)

The Game was disposable crap of the best kind – it's probably my favorite.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

I hated Seven and Fight Club, fell asleep during The Game and semi-enjoyed Panic Room. The only movie of Finchers I really liked was probably Alien 3. All that said I just read a couple of reviews of Zodiac (figuring what the hell they can't give away anything I don't already know haha) and it sounds really interesting so I am definitely going to see this despite my misgivings above.

― Alex in SF, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

as an alex in sf you should see this at least for the sf, alex.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:01 (nineteen years ago)

i see what you did there

― kenan, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:02 (nineteen years ago)

Fincher has always been deceptively shallow to me which is why, after reading the script, I thought 'The Game' was better than I thought it was going to be, though still fatally flawed. 'Seven' was the worst kind of paranoid porn and I never bothered with 'Panic Room', though I've seen parts of it. I remember liking 'Alien 3' but I don't rememer much. I like that he's used Harris Savides for DP again.

― Michael White, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:16 (nineteen years ago)

i want to see this.
i love The Game and how Alien 3 looks. no desire to see Seven again (though i've seen it twice) and i haven't seen Panic Room. i kind of hate 'true crime' though...

― rrrobyn, Thursday, 1 March 2007 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

what slocki said x 1000000

Tho I didn't catch any Kubrick, that scene in the factory, w/ all the straight-on one-shots, was oh so Demme.

― David R., Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:23 (nineteen years ago)

Nice to see Philip Baker Hall in a GOOD movie about the Zodiac killer, too.

― David R., Saturday, 3 March 2007 03:24 (nineteen years ago)

the way the movie had such distinct acts—journalism movie to cop movie to... obsessed man on a mission movie... the way it discarded characters it was done with... all of this felt pretty kubricky to me.

― s1ocki, Saturday, 3 March 2007 04:07 (nineteen years ago)

I think there was a good movie in here somewhere, but I think it's time to re-evaluate Fincher because Zodiac was complete half-assed. First 45 minutes were terrific. The remaining 90 minutes were disjointed, out of place, and, well, half-assed.

At the very least, Chloe Sevigny's shrill Sissy-Spacek-In-JFK "you're too obsessed!" routine needed to be deleted

― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 3 March 2007 08:03 (nineteen years ago)

what? sevigny wasn't shrill at all!

it was a similar kind of role as Spacek in JFK for sure but what struck me is how un-shrill her take on it was.

i thought this was great. really absorbing!

― latebloomer, Saturday, 3 March 2007 08:58 (nineteen years ago)

A bit disappointing, this. Scene to scene it's gripping, and the murders are shot in an off-kilter manner vaguely reminiscent of David Lynch (I looked away several times). Probably Fincher's best.

But this Greengrass-ian docudrama schtick is getting puritan and tiresome; why do directors assume that asceticism equals realism? I can't remember a single memorable line. It makes perfect sense that Fincher cast the boringly efficient Anthony Edwards in a big part.

Downey, Jr was predictably entertaining; he and Brian Cox were the only ones allowed actorly flourishes. Jake was miscast and stunningly groomed (he's never looked better), although makeup artists didn't even bother aging him (atoning for the Brokeback Mountain porn 'stache?).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 3 March 2007 20:56 (nineteen years ago)

Best movie I've seen in five years, maybe more. I'm sure the Coen Brothers fan club here will gag on it, if the mongrel shits can grasp it at all.

― Dr. Morbius, Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:08 (nineteen years ago)

Alfred, are you seriously bitching about this movie because it wasn't showy or quotable enough?

― David R., Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:11 (nineteen years ago)

I'm pretty sure Domino's playing on a Cinemax station, if you're looking for that sort of thing.

― David R., Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

I'll take a masterpiece over a catchphrase. No surprise in seeing the plebian element voicing otherwise. Maybe Klinger should stick to his Tarantino video game garbage.

― Dr. Morbius, Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:17 (nineteen years ago)

No surprise in seeing the plebian element voicing otherwise. Maybe Klinger should stick to his Tarantino video game garbage.

Who the fuck are you talking about and what the fuck are you talking about?

― Rock Hardy, Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:21 (nineteen years ago)

I didn't sense the obsession in the Graysmith character to support some of the Borges-sian ironies in the script and Fincher's direction; his ardor

Best scene: the interrogation of Leigh Allen in the distillery. John Carroll Lynch was quietly amazing.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:22 (nineteen years ago)

*er, "his ardor" = his ardor seemed more like doggedness.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:24 (nineteen years ago)

I'm pretty sure Domino's playing on a Cinemax station, if you're looking for that sort of thing

Look, there's no fucking point in comparing two very different movies for the sake of a joke.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:26 (nineteen years ago)

Stuff I loved:

(1) The staging of the murders

(2) How Fincher serves the material instead of injecting hysterics: the fucked-up bureaucratic haggling, how Paul Avery and Graysmith never develop a friendship (their last scene is brutal).

(3) Graysmith and his wife's marriage. Chloe Sevigny is NOT Mrs. Jim Garrison; that mooncalf docility she specializes in is put to good effect.

(4) No attempt to "humanize" characters, a la Brad Pitt playing with his dogs in Seven.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:45 (nineteen years ago)

Look, there's no fucking point in comparing two very different movies for the sake of a joke.

Point taken, but given that you seem to like the down-tempo, restrained nature of the flick (serving the material, lack of hysterics, etc.), I was kinda surprised you zinged it for being that very thing.

Fake Dr. Morbs needs to go back to the drawing board & whip up better zingers.

― David R., Sunday, 4 March 2007 00:43 (nineteen years ago)

Best scene: the interrogation of Leigh Allen in the distillery. John Carroll Lynch was quietly amazing.

otm!

my other favorite scene:

gyllenhall with Charles Fleischer in the basement, so creepy/hilarious

― latebloomer, Sunday, 4 March 2007 03:33 (nineteen years ago)

(2) How Fincher serves the material instead of injecting hysterics: the fucked-up bureaucratic haggling, how Paul Avery and Graysmith never develop a friendship (their last scene is brutal).

Yeah, it seemed affected and mandatory. None of the Robert Downey Jr. stuff stuck with me at all. I don't think the movie would've suffered one lick if he hadn't been in it.

(3) Graysmith and his wife's marriage. Chloe Sevigny is NOT Mrs. Jim Garrison; that mooncalf docility she specializes in is put to good effect.

'Mooncalf docility?' What the fuck? I like my maidens mooncalf docile, right? Sevigny does nothing except wear a pair of ugly glasses. 'Mooncalf docility' sounds pretty, but it seemed plainly a lethargic performance, not a lethargic character. Further – the whole obsessed-writer bit was distracting and self-serving, and went nowhere.

(4) No attempt to "humanize" characters, a la Brad Pitt playing with his dogs in Seven.

Saying that the characters weren't 'humanized' and this somehow adds to the movie's merit is creepy and wrong. They were adequately humanized – but if there had been more character-wise to the film, emotional engagement would've been more, well, engaging. At times Zodiac felt like it hewed so closely to arcana and verifiable fact, and that it was trying to solve the mystery, that it lost the edge of transportiveness that has been so effective in (some) of Fincher's other work.

― remy bean, Sunday, 4 March 2007 03:59 (nineteen years ago)

I don't recognize his "humanized", it sounds like a horrible idea, I wunna see Zodiac without empathising with its grotesques.

― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 4 March 2007 04:03 (nineteen years ago)

Oh no...SEVIGNY. Will the Jakenhall and the MERDeR detract?

― Abbott, Sunday, 4 March 2007 06:18 (nineteen years ago)

I would also prefer me some arcana and veritable fact to transportiveness. And IIRC from preview some Gyllenhall sideburange! Oh '90s hipsters, all I miss is your sideburns.

― Abbott, Sunday, 4 March 2007 06:22 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 872 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

“for some reason” = her family couldnt afford to bury her in Massachussets, and Oakland was the most affordable/cheapest burial that could be found (an LA funeral home helped w arrangements at no charge to the family) - local
LA cemeteries either didnt want the publicity or wanted to charge exorbitantly for the spectacle

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 24 December 2025 21:23 (six months ago)

(Short’s mother had relocated to California after the murder etc )

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 24 December 2025 21:23 (six months ago)

The "Elizabeth" sketch with the word "Zodiac" apparently hidden in it is odd. If it's authentic, then I'm not sure what to make of that.

― jmm, Wednesday, 24 December 2025 21:38 (six months ago)

odds on his being responsible for black dahlia but a crank leaving breadcrumbs about zodiac?

― Wichita Referee's Assistant (darraghmac), Wednesday, 24 December 2025 21:50 (six months ago)

the word in the painting looks more like "2ngie" to me. people are seeing what they want to see.

― adam t (dat), Thursday, 25 December 2025 01:18 (six months ago)

maybe they can finally solve the 2ngie Killer case as well then

― ciderpress, Thursday, 25 December 2025 01:30 (six months ago)

The 'Z' is pretty plainly a z to me, not a 2. The rest is obscure, but the whole argument as laid out is pretty suggestive. I'd say a pile of circumstantial clues that numerous and unusual is enough to be conclusive.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 25 December 2025 01:35 (six months ago)

This guy, Larry Harnisch, calls bullshit. Doesn't say much in the 6.5 min video, but next Tuesday he's doing a live youtube talk on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg21302E5b0

― nickn, Thursday, 25 December 2025 02:06 (six months ago)

Harnisch is pretty legit - or at least he is the least insane* & most genuine of the Black Dahlia obsessives imo

*low bar, obv

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 25 December 2025 02:39 (six months ago)

wasn't expecting to be more convinced by the Black Dahlia angle than the Zodiac one but that article was fascinating.

― ryan, Thursday, 25 December 2025 02:48 (six months ago)

ok the "solve" is in steps
1 rearrange into 2 rows, second line backwards, add a spare empty tile to the first to make them even. no problems here. the code does have a symmetry that would suggest something like this.
2 transpose the symbols in both lines in the same way. the problem is that there is no reason for that specific transposition. it looks like they were trying every possible transposition to find one that worked. the idea of 'elizabeth' being the key in this step is nonsense.
3. substitute each symbol for a letter. again there is no "key" being used here, just trying random substitutions until one looks interesting.

the motivation for this solution is that the name has the same number of letters as the symbols, and has 3 letters used twice and 1 used three times just like the symbols. that's not enough to go on.

― adam t (dat), Friday, 26 December 2025 00:13 (six months ago)

four weeks pass...

So Elon Green just delivered a brilliant, just restrained enough shiv to Connolly and crew re the combined Dahlia/Zodaic thing with this amazing piece of proper investigative journalism:

https://defector.com/michael-connelly-should-stick-to-fake-crime?giftLink=b288d8263ff1a9b0ba8c7b324bce1abb

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 January 2026 20:12 (five months ago)

good

as “solved” crimes they’re about thrilling as Capone’s vault to me

i still have time for the exploration of possible suspects for both & new evidence, and I think i slways will - because i dont really think they’ll ever be solved. it’s part of the appeal.

but the over-confident “Case Closed” narratives that continually emerge have always turned me off because they’re always so stupidly cockeyed

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 23 January 2026 21:42 (five months ago)

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