thread of inappropriate professional attachments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK3L2lCxcl8

i keep thinking this thread is going to be able EXE files but it isn't.

'about' i mean, sigh

gong

probe him for weakness. see if he likes ayn rand or similar instant crush kill.

Doubt it. He's a Sarf London lad, he's into protein shakes and fixing his car at the weekend - if all that wasn't a crush killer (not to mention the terrible haircut) then nothing will be.

He could be a home counties Tory, though! The other two were discussing politics in a "LOL Boris"-Tory way but he didn't weigh in on that discussion.

Have you already forgotten the lesson of the "I love to eat dogs!" moment so recently taught to us?

Wait, what was the lesson?

Even disgusting information does not lessen crushes once they are properly established?

Just the other day I told a ravishing young beauty with whom I am smitten that I am convinced that it stems as much from the testosterone boost she surely gives me since I know strictly nothing will happen between us (mutually) but I simply cannot imagine having erotic dreams about someone and not teasing them about it, if only in a 'You've apparently carbonated my hormones' way. It's only stupid biology.

"A tough kid who sometimes swallows nails
Raised on Prisoner's Aid"

I would be *mortified* if someone found out that I'd had an erotic dream about them! It would not be a joking matter, it would be the last thing on earth I would tell someone!

(Especially since in my dream, he told me that he was actually gay, but that he would make an exception and get me off, just this once. He had better hair in the dream, though. In fact, he very specifically had Owen's old hair in this dream, which is ironic given that Owen has written songs about a character with his name and Owen has also done tragic things to his hair recently.)

ugh

Ugh is right. I would be TOTALLY CREPEED OUT if a random person I was not involved with told me that they had had erotic dreams about me.

(Then again, I am quite happy to tell and interweb forum full of strangers, so what does that make me?)

((There is a difference between telling strangers who will never ever meet the person and TELLING THAT PERSON THEMSELF.))

(((Oh god of course today was the day that my brain chose to remember the one time in recorded history that someone actually had a work crush on *me*. He wasn't an actual colleague, he was someone I worked closely with at a tech firm I did a lot of business with. He was also much younger than me, extremely hott, flirted insanely over email, and then one day actually asked me out - and I dated him for several months, until it became patently obvious that we had absolutely nothing in common except hottsex. So there is precedent, even though I must try my best to never, ever think of this again.)))

xp oh sorry. i was ughing at all tone of all this dog eating talk. maybe it's all in jest but unless someone is a vegetarian and reacts the same way upon learning that their love interest consumes any kind of meat at all, whether it's a cow, pig, or dog, i don't see why it's on the level of being a crush killer, much less an AYN RAND FAN.

speaking as someone who has no interest in eating dog or trying it. i just get annoyed when people are all like, oh gross!

i do think the erotic dreams thing would be on a case by case basis! if it were mutual, for example. i would find it weird if it were the situation MW described above, where there seems to be no real point to disclosing such information, and would certainly never voluntarily give up such information!

Well, I am a vegetarian, and meat is pretty much all of a level to me. I don't understand why someone would eat pig and cow and sheet, but not dog and horse and whatever. But if I reserved my crush list to "only vegans" that would leave me, well, Thom Yorke and that's it.

But, to me, drinking those disgusting protein shakes is way, way more disgusting than eating any kind of meat - dog or pig or whatever. And my crush does this every morning, and I have to smell it (and make rude comments about it) so that's kind of what I was talking about. That if you are deep enough in crush, even information that you find disturbing (like clearly the dogmeat thing was to Grady) will not actually dislodge the crush.

i almost accidentally submitted my earlier post with "whether it's a cat, pig, or dog". heh. same principle tho!

i agree generally that once you're in, you're in. i had a gazillion rational reasons to not like my last crush, including stuff he did that i thought was stupid/arrogant, but i couldn't help it. glad he's gone!

"Sheet"?

Sheep!

Sorry.

having erotic dreams about someone and not teasing them about it

I can only control my dreams to a certain extent so I don't really get why it's so bad. I also wouldn't go into any more detail than, "I had a rather steamy dream about you." She was skeeved so I'll never mention it again but it's hardly my fault for having a dream and since I would rather die than ever bring up the subject again and she's fine being my (more discreet) pal, I don't think there's any great harm done to either of us. I semi-chaperoned a semi-date she had last Friday. As I recall we all had a good time.

It's not bad HAVING said dream, it's bad TELLING said person about said dream!

That's like one step below telling someone you have wank-fantasies about them.

In fact, I'd probably be more likely to tell OfficeBoy I had wank-fantasies about him than that I had dreams about him, because at least I am semi in control of the former. NOT THAT I WOULD EVER TELL HIM EITHER. Because ugh.

AYN RAND FAN.

I remember laying in a rather amorous and enticing girl's bed once waiting for her to get out of the bathroom and come join me in her bed and seeing 'Atlas Shrugged' in her bookshelf. As much as I lusted after her and as compatible as we may have been at some animal shagging level, I knew the entire we would fcuk I'd be thinking, 'Dear God! Rand?! I can't do this'. I had to feign a malaise to get out of it and I felt rather poorly for her but, no!

we all have our own crush killers, rayuela, those were just some real-life examples. be accepting of our idiosyncratic preferences. it's a crush life for a working stiff.

it's bad TELLING said person about said dream!

It was a little tease not a précis. If she didn't know I half fancied her I'd say she was blithe and you can be sure I was anything but heavy-handed about it - detailed dream sescriptions are a certain bore.

It's not the level of detail, it's telling them AT ALL.

(Also, just because someone has a book on their bookshelf does not mean that they like it, agree with it, or indeed, have even read it.)

(Also, just because someone has a book on their bookshelf does not mean that they like it, agree with it, or indeed, have even read it.)

true, but it's hardly the domain of rational behaviors to begin with, so I have to go with it.

hang on, I'm going to go tell my boss I had an erotic dream about her and see how she reacts. and any faculty who are hanging out by the copier as a control.

I'm not like you WCC, I usually just tell ppl what I'm on about and go with it. If they feel like they need to avoid me ever after, so be it. I can't be bothered not telling ppl who I like or fancy. Gather ye rosebuds, etc.. I am conscientious about not being insistent or boorish about it. I might come across as flippant to ppl I like or admire but never indifferent.

(Also, just because someone has a book on their bookshelf does not mean that they like it, agree with it, or indeed, have even read it.)

I thoroughly agree but the mere presence of the book put me off. I genuinely felt bad since I thought we definitely had a mutual interest and a chemistry but in this case, I wasn't able to be as forthright, 'cause how do you tell a potential lover, "I'm as horny as a stoat right now but I won't be able to keep it up knowing there's a Rand book in the room"?

See, that is the most backwards thing in the world to me.

Like, I would have no problem asking anyone, if I saw a book on their shelf, "Um, do you actually like Rand, or did you just read that for High School?" What on earth would be the problem with saying something like that to someone?

But, you know, "By the way, my brain has totally imaged you naked and me shagging you!" is totally off limits and out of any sense of propriety at all!

I cannot think of any way in which telling someone (with whom you have not already been intimate) that you had an actual dream, about having sex with them, would not be completely creepy.

Or completely endearing?

WCC, let me reiterate, I felt bad but Rand is like kryptonite to my libido.

x-post This is what terrifies me. That people - especially men - who do things which can legitimately be viewed as totally creepy, have ~no idea~ how actually creepy those things are.

On that note, I don't think I should contribute to this thread any more. I am probably being legitimately creepy to this poor lad, and don't realise I'm crossing lines, either.

fyi i'm vegetarian and think eating meat is p gross in general, tho i dont really get that judgmental abt it

but also that frowny face was kind of misplaced: being so unashamed about a stupid social moor actually kind of flipped itself and made me crush on her more :-)

I haven't been propositioned all that much but I've rarely been offended (male or female) though mostly flattered and as long as everyone conducts themselves like moderately civilized ppl I don't see the harm in candor or flirting. I'm a huge flirt so maybe ppl don't take offense 'cause they think I'm not serious. I used to flirt like mad with my gf's feue grandma and we had what she called a hoot.

I don't think it's a 'men thing' as much as I think it's about poise and social skills. Heavy-handed ppl and ppl w/no timing or sense of environment or occasion or regard for anybody but themselves are inevitably dull, but then are the eternally repressed and ppl who never take chances.

Jesus, if someone I worked with said 'I had a rather steamy dream about you' my skin would crawl. It'd be a little different if we were DEFINITELY, intentionally, flirting on both sides but still, you want to tread lightly with that...

we all have our own crush killers, rayuela, those were just some real-life examples. be accepting of our idiosyncratic preferences. it's a crush life for a working stiff.
--the girl from spirea x (f. hazel)

From many posts ago: Sorry but if ppl can express distaste for things, I can express distaste for their distaste, particularly when the distaste is directed at something that is largely culturally based/associated with different cultures.

On a diff note, the last time I told a guy that he was in my dream, he assumed I had a sex dream when I was just trying to tell him about whatever funny thing he did! So I generally do not share.

Michael, the fact that you have rarely been ~offended~ let alone felt creeped out or even made to feel uncomfortable or even UNSAFE by a proposition says a lot more about male privilege and Rape Culture than it does about anything else.

I've definitely been propositioned by men, WCC, many shady ones, too but as much as it says about male privilege and rape culture I think it also says something about slut-shaming that it's somehow unacceptable for a woman to flirt even daringly. I would NEVER offer this info out of a context that was mutually or at least conceivably flirtatious and never without a demeanor that implicitly denied perfect self-control and respect.

I always end up feeling like a troll talking to you, WCC, but I'm entirely in eanest, devoid of malice, and am trying to be as clever as my limited capacity allows. :(

So I guess I've learned not to do or say anything that could even be misconstrued as flirting at work in case some guy thought it was ok to tell me about *dreams*

"She was skeeved so I'll never mention it again but it's hardly my fault for having a dream"

I don't get it. Having a dream /= mentioning said dream to the dream's subject.

"I simply cannot imagine having erotic dreams about someone and not teasing them about it"

You need to learn to imagine this and put it into practice

This is really disheartening.

When a man brings up a behaviour which four women in a row (five, if you count the woman who was "skeeved" by it) say "That is definitely inappropriate, over the line and would make me uncomfortable." And the bloke who brought it up continues to represent that it's somehow *women* who should change, be more flirtatious and "daring." (I'm taking this to mean more open, receptive and providing flirtertainment for you, the male who thinks of himself as a Roué.)

When, the women on this thread are responding with increasing caution, at the horrifying knowledge that if you flirt, even in jest or to smooth a work situation, you will be opening yourself up to a situation where a man will feel justified in ~sharing~ his subconscious or conscious sexual fantasies about you AT you. And think that's OK.

And this is Rape Culture 101, this idea that even when women have explicitly stated their boundaries (it is *not* OK to tell a colleague you have had an erotic dream about them) a man will still feel justified in coming along pooh-poohing those boundaries and saying "oh no, it's OK, because I was ~respectful~ when I did it (even though she was skeeved out)" because you know what? Refusing to acknowledge and pooh-poohing women's stated boundaries is NOT respectful no matter how "implicit" you think your "self control" is.

When words and actions do not align, I take actions as the true representation, every time, in trying to establish whether this person and/or this situation is safe or not.

thread only got creepy when michael arrived, suuuure

There is being creepy in a safe space, where you can diffuse tension you are feeling, so that a work environment remains safe and does NOT become a "Hostile Work Environment" for anyone involved. And then there is non-consensually sharing your sex fantasies with someone you work with.

And if you can't tell the difference between those two things, you really shouldn't be working with other human beings.

Anyway, if it takes Michael's behaviour as a mirror to show me how disgusting and gross I am being about this boy, then it has worked. I feel disgusting and gross. I shall do my best to avoid any inappropriate personal conversation about him, or with him, in the future.

one time this girl I worked with told me she had a dream about me

and I was like "oh really"

and then suddenly, from the cheerful face with which she told me she had the dream, just like thinking about the dream, her face just got angrier and angrier, second by second

and she spluttered out "you stole me bicycle"

she walked away in a huff and I didn't see her again that day

I had a dream about a colleague the other night but it was about how she took me under her wing as an assistant. We moved the whole office to Irvine, California, then she sent me up to L.A. to ask David Lee Roth for a million dollars. Driving up the PCH was awesome. When I got to Roth's place, half of the public area was a kung fu studio/gym, the other half was an undergraduate economics program. I thought I saw Roth leave from the gym to hit the showers, but when someone finally emerged, it was a different guy done up like David Lee Roth. He robotically intoned "we understand you want to ask us for a million dollar gift." and then walked up the hall without saying anything more.

I told her about the dream.

I don't have steamy dreams very often and I don't know if I've ever had such a dream about someone who actually exists.

I don't have any workplace crushes. Being married/having children helps here for me, but ymmv. I have another colleague with whom I've developed a rapport. Snappy patter and the like. It's the happiest I've been interacting with another human being at work in years. I don't have a crush on her though, or anything like that. It's just such a change from the usual drab, glum, bitterness that I've been accustomed to encountering in the last 7-8 years of employment that I thought I'd mention it. It's weird, because I work in an office that's largely attractive young women but I haven't crushed on any of them.