Symmetry required it: 2012 american general election thread #2

there are better reasons for them to be suspicious than his religion such as his tenure as a moderate democrat

Posted this elsewhere, but my mom has been needling her far-right, evangelical sister about this. Sister is happily voting Romney, mainly on social issues, secondarily because he's "a businessman." Won't really discuss the Mormonism-is-a-cult aspects of this at all, just happy to try to get rid Obama in any way possible.

At my mom's birthday dinner last week she said semi-ironically, "I qualify for Social Security in two years!" I almost said, "If you vote for Romney you won't have Medicare, so I'm glad you've got something. I also almost said: "I may have to vote for Obama because I don't have the money to take care of you in ten years when President Romney has you living on vouchers."

* something."

Not a lot of people on the evangelical right are talking about it because they're very good at closing ranks, but they all grew up hearing the same Joseph Smith was a False Prophet sermons I did, and it's definitely in the back of their heads.

yeah it's funny hearing family members dance around the Mormon thing. my folks got kinda evangelical-ish for a while in the mid-80s when they rejoined the Southern Baptist church after a few years as Presbyterians. i distinctly remember my mom making vague, delicate criticisms of Mormonism and how it wasn't 'technically Christian' when i was a kid. i brought this up recently and she totally played dumb.

these people aint happy lest theyre mucking around in somebodys business

i think the math works out to

(false-prophet christian) + (evangelical golden boy) >>> (secret muslim) + (cafeteria catholic)

yeah for these folks the 'cult' of Mormonism always beats cult of liberal secularism so

(is Ryan evangelical?)

It does add a fkn odd edge to the "sympathise with the enemies" bullshit though - like isn't "respect for all religions" the sort of talk that's allowed the continued existence of your tribe?

ryan's catholic!

xp Catholic I thought?

i didn't realize he was catholic! he's got the staunch pro-life thing going for him, tho, which i think is what matters

papists and heretics

also fun/ funny how Romney totally evinces all this shady other-ism they've been trying to lay on Obama for four years

different shade iirc

In Your Heart, You Know He's White

"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. They are different."

-- F. Scott Fitzgerald --

unlike other people who dont think theyre better than everyone else

W/E "F SCOTT"

I still say the driving force behind much of these folks ain't Christianity, so much as "Christianity" as the State/Civic Religion of the Empire. I.e. its a battle standard they can all march behind with absolute certainty that the Ultimate Authority supports/demands it, actual tenets of that religion be damned.

If Obama wins this year, that will mean that the Democratic candidate has gotten more votes than the Republican in 5 out of the last 6 presidential elections.

yeah, and if you combine the vote totals for the winners of every U.S. Presidential election from George Washington in 1788 to Teddy Roosevelt in 1904, Obama's total in 2008 is still bigger. Take that, 19th century.

different shade iirc
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, September 17, 2012 12:49 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In Your Heart, You Know He's White
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Monday, September 17, 2012 12:52 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

irl lols, one after the other. Thanking you, gentlemen.

The GOP base has been in a weird and ongoing evolution (as has the Dem base, obviously). The money behind it is still mostly coming from the same places as 100 years ago -- Wall Street and industrialists -- but the old WASP establishment fractured and so they've had to constantly broaden their reach, to all kinds of people that Coolidge-era Republicans would have found unpleasant: Southern evangelicals, socially conservative Catholics, Israel-hawk Jews, and now nominating a Mormon. Basically, if you're white, religious, and have someone you hate, the GOP is there for you.

Also, we're dealing with a subculture where public loud declarations and reaffirmations of tribal slogans are the main key of membership.

As long as you say the magic words, you're in.

And the "businessman" justification seems like people saying they don't like the third Godfather movie due to Sofia C or that the dancing scenes made Spiderman 3 suck; it's fumbling around for a justification of an emotional belief that you can't articulate, so you grasp for the quickest superficial detail your instincts dig up.

In other words, plenty know they're leaning against the one guy and for the other guy for reasons they can't quite list, so they mouth the easiest one. But because this isn't the central reason why plenty of these folks go Romney, just trying to attack that reasoning alone doesn't do anything to dislodge the core belief. It's not the main backstop.

nb i don't find conservatives tactically voting "for a mormon" -- really, voting against liberalism -- surprising, because i don't think "voting against" is a bad thing myself.

to wit:

http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2012/09/10-fun-facts-from-the-values-voter-summit/

i hate to give that moron credit but santorum is positioning himself nicely for 2016. hard to imagine his social policy won't be even more toxic in four years but he's definitely building himself a bigger base, if huckabee has any intentions of running he should be concerned. fuck them both obv.

Huckabee isn't running for shit, dude is much happier/more effective living on pundit hill

but he will run to a Denny's.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/487091_10150978537422869_846445913_n.jpg

I know what you're thinking, "So where's Goldilocks in this picture?"

value voters fire island retreat

still tangientially pres campaign related, so i'll put this here:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/09/remarkable-martyrization-nakoula-basseley-nakoula

so fucked up. not even i would have expected this to happen

aww yeah. there it is:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser

"I am Nakoula Basseley Nakoula,"

romney said

and no one heard him, not even the chair.

this fuckin guy

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.

Romney went on: "My job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

didnt this video come out liek a a week ago why is it all over the place all of a sudden, are there two hidden camera romney videos

oh was this from the same grateful chinese laborers video?

i saw that portion on youtube weeks ago, but this bit is new to me

idk im confused

they must be diff videos, romney gettin surveilled

the level of antipathy for Romney within the Republican ranks must be astronomical for this shit to be leaking

it would only take one angry rich republican to leak it, right?

how many angry rich Republicans does it take to screw one mitten?

All right, there are 47 percent who are with him... who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement.

tbf i do believe this

These clips are new to me. Normally I don't think stuff like this matters much, but the timing isn't good for Romney--like if Obama's guns-and-religion video surfaced a month before than election rather than eight. One more instance of Romney reverting to self-caricature.

he sounds so confident! such firm convictions! where did candidate fuckup go

clips are w/e but politico piece is a bomb

Love the implication that no Obama supporter pays taxes yet all feel entitled to gubmint handouts.