Shall we anticipate the FIFTH SEASON of the AMC series "Breaking Bad"? I think I may.

Given the show's proven attention to detail, I would not be shocked if there is some regulation that requires hazardous liquids to be last in a train, or trains carting such being only x trains long. I think it was Slate that determined this train track/line actually exists, via google earth or whatever.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:37 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wasn't going to bring it up, but I already looked up rail lines in McKinney County, NM, and except for some old mining tracks that lead up into nowhere, the main line seems to stick pretty close to I-40 – pretty much away from any dead zone.

I thought I found the filming location south of Santa Fe, but who knows.

Maybe this was a secret dead zone!

Ghost Railroads of the Western Interior

An I think non-aspie plot hole that's bugging me is, shouldn't Mike be under tons of police surveillance? Like, didn't Hank & Gomie actually say they'd be doing this? Even if not, wouldn't he assume he was?

Loved this ep so much. I get Old Lunch's (I think) point above about the pleasure in how this show walks us through dorks becoming criminals, but it's been 4+ seasons, I felt this was earned. Besides, the pulpy thrill of the whole sequence set up the final horror so perfectly.

Here's why I'm ultimately able to ignore niggling questions like "How did they know that that particular train car would stop exactly where they needed it to?": One of the running themes of the show is Walt's attempt at wrangling control over this world he's in and then being forced to problem solve on the fly and mop up (sometimes literally) in the wake those messy attempts at wresting control. That tension could have been achieved in this instance by having the methylamine car wind up somewhere inconvenient, which would then have forced Walt to Mr. Wizard a solution to the problem. But one of the other running themes (particular to this season) is Walt's increasing arrogance and feeling of invulnerability, and I think they felt it was more important to use the nearly-disastrous heist to showcase that theme instead. From a narrative standpoint, the conflict of the murdered kid is a more appropriately-scaled consequence for the post-Gus incarnation of Walt to deal with (he's taking much bigger and more fearless gambles, so the losses are going to be much more potentially devastating).

I'm looking at Mike's surveillance through a Wire lens: they probably want to do a lot more to keep tabs on him than they have the time/money/manpower/probable cause to do.

They couldn't keep tabs he left at night and was in a dead zone don't you get it? IRONCLAD!

I don't even care about the plausibility of it. It's not that Mike running around to potential cook sites & threating Lydia's life every episode is "unrealistic" but it seems like it'd be dramatically interesting to have him feel constrained--leaving Walt with more space for his ego to swell & take charge.

I thought it was even less realistic (but also really funny and intentional) that Walt knew for sure that Hank would shut the blinds and leave the office when Hank started crying.

Aaron Paul and Giancarlo Esposito in The Ghost Whisperer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce37ApsjfKc

side note: random Wilhelm scream at 1:46

xpost

Well, if there's one thing Walt has proven really adept at, it's reading/manipulating people. He probably knows Hank well enough to predict his reaction to that particular scenario.

this was p tite btw

next FAP - Santa FE

http://www.sfsr.com/

truth be told, the ep WAS tite

I was so mad at Walt for waiting til the last possible nanosecond to call them off the train. Greedy motherfucker.

I think it's fair to say, at this point, that he doesn't particularly value anyone. Except inasmuch as their value to him as pawns. I would've said he cared about Jesse's well-being, but that doesn't seem to hold true anymore. His kids? Maybe. But only maybe. Would not be at all surprised if, before this show is over, he's forced to make a decision between his family and his business and he sides with the latter.

"Except inasmuch as they have value to him as pawns." Sheesh.

I know Walt's not really following any logic but his own deluded narrative now but every time he says to Skylar not to worry about the kids I'm like, does he not remember those Mexican psychokiller cylon twins? they would've gutted his family like fish!!!

"would've", I know but still

Like, I kinda don't get his angle with respect to his family anymore. I think he's clinging to whatever vestiges of love he feels for his kids, if only because it's just about the only shred of decency or humanity he has left, but it is a completely deluded thing at this point. I mean, his actions betray a complete lack of interest in their general well-being. I'd almost imagine that a newer struggle is taking place within himself between that love he feels and the question of whether he'd be willing to sacrifice them in the service of his Scarface-ification. Beyond that, they're really little more than pawns in his effort to keep Skylar in line (as well as property that he isn't willing to concede).

He's territorial about them in roughly the same way and to roughly the same extent as he is about his house. They're HIS.

I don't even care about the plausibility of it. It's not that Mike running around to potential cook sites & threating Lydia's life every episode is "unrealistic" but it seems like it'd be dramatically interesting to have him feel constrained--leaving Walt with more space for his ego to swell & take charge.

― RCMP, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 19:30 (1 hour ago) Permalink

the teaser for next week showed that Mike is going under heavy surveillance so I guess they just wanted to have a fun caper before dealing with that plotline.

this post and this talk of attention to detail in general is bringing out a whiney-esque hatred. why do you people/why does the internet care? like it could be seen as good the people involved pay attention to these things but digging to find the exact part of trainline is way too far down the aspie rabbit hole, time wasted that could be spent doing absolutely anything else would be more productive

― a hoy hoy, Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:41 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

come on it's awesome that ppl are criticizing this for not being realistic and then it turns out it actually is, ultimate burn

i have to say i usually hate flash-forward shit, beginning of episode or season or w/e, but Breaking Bad does it better than any show i can think of off the top of my head. thought the whole season 2 post-plane crash thing was a good example.

Guys, not to get overly-pedantic here or anything, but "attention to detail" and "realism" are two different (if sometimes related) concepts that people have been using interchangeably in this thread. Breaking Bad is generally pretty good with the former while playing relatively fast and loose with the latter.

I remember reading an article once about men who murder their families before killing themselves. The claim was that their patriarchal ego was so dominant that they saw their family as actual appendages of their selves. So suicide necessitated the death of their families too.

Whether this is a real psychological phenomenon or not, it does seem to be a path that Walt is headed down - his concern for his families unity and safety is ultimately self-serving, not least because they provide the justification he needs for his crimes. From the very beginning he has framed his actions like that ('need money for when I die').

The interesting thing about this episode is that there is a new threat to that sense of self - Hank is literally usurping his role as father of his baby. So Hank's earlier, more literal 'castration' has shifted to a threat of 'castration' for Walt. I think we'll see some serious sparks fly between Walt and Hank; not over their opposite sides in the war on drugs, but over their rival claims as protector of the family.

tl:dr spent my afternoon reading Zizek, sorry.

Do not apologize. Excellent post.

The two references to Jesse James are now making me wonder who, in the end, will shoot Walt in the back.

yeah dowd that was great, no apology necessary!

It's like, the way Walt sees it is his motivations *started out* as noble so, pfft of course they still are! He still thinks he's doing 'all of this' for Skylar and the kids. Even though he's the greedy green eyed monster now he's still holding onto that original idea like a liferaft, like that's still the thing that makes him A Good Guy. Even though the actual motivation to provide for his family dried up almost as soon as he saw the giant piles of money. Then it just became about getting more money.

It's like his family has slowly become a standin for his cancer, and the business is his new chemotherapy. It's almost literally chemo therapy.

xpost I used to think Breaking Bad really pushed the realism boundary, but then I read that piece about the Mexican cartel dudes who had built a secret underground smuggling tunnel behind a button activated hidden door and a giant catapult to fling product over the border.

I do like how in this season Walt is all finally, fuck it, I'm spending some money. Because almost every illegal American drug enterprise story inevitably shows everyone living in squalid flats, too paranoid to spend a penny.

that was fine but did wonder why they'd choose to put twisty ties on meth tanks rather than a lock

The two references to Jesse James are now making me wonder who, in the end, will shoot Walt in the back.

― cue "White Rabbit" (kenan), Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:49 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

jesse, skyler, hank and mike simultaneously and a nanosecond before ted shoots skyler and saul shoots mike (also simultaneous)

then jesse and hank go to dennys

I was so mad at Walt for waiting til the last possible nanosecond to call them off the train. Greedy motherfucker.

Haha, that was great. I think it was partly him getting greedy about the methylmene but on top of that he was getting a serious adrenaline rush and wanted to push things to the brink.

or he wanted to be ~sure~ they wouldnt get caught

Guys, not to get overly-pedantic here or anything, but "attention to detail" and "realism" are two different (if sometimes related) concepts that people have been using interchangeably in this thread. Breaking Bad is generally pretty good with the former while playing relatively fast and loose with the latter.

― Old Lunch, Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:34 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM

or he wanted to be ~sure~ they wouldnt get caught

I was wondering about that. They started the water later, so did he have to make sure both finished pumping or else the ratio between what they took and what they left behind would be off and the weight would be wrong? But I did also wonder about those "inspected by" twist ties that they just casually took off and put back on.

I kind of assumed that they had replacement ones? Because once you lock in a zip tie you can't get it off without cutting it.

that was fine but did wonder why they'd choose to put twisty ties on meth tanks rather than a lock

They were replacing security seals. Which I only know because they use the same thing on semi trailers (see also: Beadie working the docks on The Wire). And which I had a mild issue with because the whole point of them is that once they're broken, they're broken. That's how you know someone's tampered with your cargo. I'm not really aware of an easy way to replace them once they've been removed. But I'm trying to stop examining the faulty logistics of the heist.

And they're also usually coded, so you can't just replace them. But enough!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_fcdP0UVqw

;_;

but who inspects those truck/train seals? somebody who works for the railroad? or the person accepting the shipment? IOW a madrigal person who's in on it.

It's usually the freight carrier, iirc.

maybe the freight carrier could be in on it too why not

this episode has aired a kind of trainspottingness itt that I'm enjoying immensely

Ha ha, I'm not usually that much of a stickler for stuff like this, but there are so many moving parts (literally and figuratively) involved in a heist like this that it seems a little odd that Gilligan & Co. in particular kinda glossed over a lot of the somewhat obvious impediments involved.

dude should know better than to gloss over details involving trains

i mean