Jean-Luc Godard: S and D

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nouvelle vague isn't.

dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - yeah, you're right. Actually when I was going over in my head all the films of his that I've seen, Nouvelle Vague was the only one that struck me as humorless. But it was rhetorically neater to say they all are.

Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

can i point out the irony of being a maoist film maker, maybe i dont get it, but if you were making art (or something like it) wouldnt you avoid an ideolofy which is this iconoclastic ?

anthony, Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i suppose godard finds humor in nv because he is the ultimate bitch. (xpost)

dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

his maoist flirtations were brief, and about 35 years ago

!!!! (amateurist), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

'elogé de l'amour' isn't too funny either.

cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 18 March 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

it has its moments. i would say that it dabbles in irony and abject absurdity more than it does in humor. but yes, you're mostly right.

dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Breathless is good.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 18 March 2004 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Jed, I would like to see if your Ruffalo lust holds up after his irritating performance in Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 19 March 2004 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

godard's early films (up till '66 or so) have nothing to do with maoism. after that i can't say, but the early stuff is very funny and interesting. band a parte is my favorite too.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 19 March 2004 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

One to lure me out of retirement!

I've seen most of his films up to the early 80s, and really every single one is worth seeing, even if some of the D-Z ones are almost unwatchable. The best of them is 'Vent d'Est', which was intended by its financiers as a kind of 'Bullet for the General'-style Marxist western, and indeed it has Gian Maria Volonte in it. It ends up as an essay on the politics of film-making, and is so a kind of sequel to 'Le Mepris', which is probably the best point of entry for Godard.

The jazzy score for 'Breathless' is lame, and I kind of don't think of it as a Godard at all. It was co-written with Truffaut.

His politics are always going to be a sticking point: the whole Maoist craze that afflicted France in the 60s was obviously a wrong turn, and JLG was a bit of a gadfly: you wouldn't catch Marker, Varda, or Rouch (more classically 'leftist' film-makers) making the same mistake.

This being so, I prefer his D-Z films, impossible as they are, to 'Tout va Bien', which was an attempt, via stars (Fonda and Montard) to 'reconnect' with the mass audience (it's about student politics, left-wing union politics, media politics); you'd be better off watching more straightforward contemporary films on the same subject by Ken Loach and other BBC directors of that era.

If I had to pick one, I guess it would be 'Masculin-Feminin', made in the winter of 65-66, and the start of his political odyssey, following 'Pierrot le Fou', his farewell to Hollywood.

Henry K M (Enrique), Friday, 19 March 2004 09:04 (twenty-two years ago)

'passion' is funny, sometimes just in its audacity

!!!! (amateurist), Friday, 19 March 2004 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...
http://www.criterionco.com/content/images/full_boxshot/238_box_348x490.jpg

I wish Criterion made posters out of their box art. I can't wait to watch this and the short that accompanies it.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

that's a cool cover (except for the repeat of the title on the bottom), but the film is one of godard's worst imo. funny enough, criterion is supposed to be releasing "lettre à jane" on dvd, which is another of his worst. i guess they can make it up to us by releasing "je vous salue, marie" one of these days.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 17 June 2004 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

four months pass...
How is "Le Mepris"?

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 24 October 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Excellent. The argument in the living room is gripping. The third act is -- somewhat incomprehensible, but good.

Remy (x Jeremy), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

What about this 3 DVD boxset?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002HSDD2/qid=1098643669/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/026-3737398-5990003

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

this one looks marginally better:

http://play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=162776

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Two Or Three Things I Know About Her is about the suburbs (la banlieue)

--bruno, Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Thank you, RJG, I appreciate your efforts. Actually, I think you can get it for less in the real shops. It is 'fullscreen' - booooooooooo!

I think I prefer this 'Jean Vigo' thing because it has an interview with Otar Iosseliani:

http://play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=123208

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I think they might have been filmed, in 'fullscreen'.

I can't remember but.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, right. Well, they ought to stretch them then.

I only have a 'fullscreen' portable telly to watch them on anyway.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

godard is one of those people i'd actually rather not hear about again for a long while, although i like some of his films, esp. hail mary/first name: carmen/detective/etc.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...
The 3 DVD box set referred to above, which is now GBP 19.99 in HMV or Virgin sale, is it...dubbed? It says subtitles, none.

Did you watch 'Elogie d'amour', Jerry? I taped it, on the video, off the telly, but I haven't watched it yet.

Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

that's 90 minutes you can safely record over, Peter.

Miles Finch, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

the complete jean vigo is great.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

otm! they shd do more of 'that kind of thing'.

Miles Finch, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 09:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Elogie d'Amour is well worth watching, though probably only once.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought elogie d'amour was very good when I watched in the cinema, I can remember walking down byres road explaining to my friend exactly why (it had something to do with history & memory). strangely though I can't remember anything about the film other than the fact it has a piano player and a colour change (?) in it. I doubt I'd like it as much now, knowing what I do now.

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

IIRC

First Half: Paris. moody b/w. a sensitive young man is working on a play/novel/poem/opera. plentiful references to books JLG probably hasn't read. a scene near the canal where part of 'L'Atalante' was shot.
Second Half: Brittany. extraordinary colour. an american (working for Spielberg) is trying to buy the rights to a resistance's fighter's autobiography. how awful--the yanks have no history, they have to steal 'ours' to make films. something vague about juliette binoche.

not a very lucid film, and honestly if it wasn't godard doing it no-one would have given a toss.

Miles Finch, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

five months pass...
i watched band of outsiders again last night, the end of that movie always makes me inexplicably happy. the last line of the narration is one of my favorite moments in all of cinema.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 10 July 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

people of britain, buy the new la chinoise dvd ok?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 10 July 2005 03:42 (twenty years ago)

I wish I could find a copy of the Le Mepris soundtrack somewhere.

and the latest Criterion news re: Godard is their forthcoming release of Masculin/Feminin

Gear! (Ill Cajun Gunsmith) (Gear!), Sunday, 10 July 2005 03:45 (twenty years ago)

I just saw a showing of Masculin, féminin tonight and it was fun as hell-- probably my favorite of the Godard films I've seen so far.

Chris F. (servoret), Sunday, 10 July 2005 04:44 (twenty years ago)

people of britain, buy the new la chinoise dvd ok?

Oh man, I hadn't heard about this. I'm debating ordering it from Amazon UK.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 10 July 2005 04:54 (twenty years ago)

Does anyone know if there are any available versions of Historie(s) du cinema?

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 10 July 2005 05:04 (twenty years ago)

only the japanese box set

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 10 July 2005 05:16 (twenty years ago)

and the latest Criterion news re: Godard is their forthcoming release of Masculin/Feminin

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Sunday, 10 July 2005 05:19 (twenty years ago)

Apparently the MF Criterion disc has new interviews with Goya, Kurrant and Gorin.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 10 July 2005 05:24 (twenty years ago)

omg destroy Comment ça va, worst godard ever. it probably would have been good as a book on tape or something though.

Dan I. (Dan I.), Sunday, 10 July 2005 05:25 (twenty years ago)

Or a lecture!

Dan I. (Dan I.), Sunday, 10 July 2005 05:26 (twenty years ago)

there's also a french (vhs only) box set of Histoire(s) du cinéma

---Bruno, Sunday, 10 July 2005 07:40 (twenty years ago)

i got chinoise from australia, it was supposed to have 'british sounds' as an extra but didn't. peeved criterion are doing 'm-f' cos i got it on a uk edition. 'la chinoise' looks glorious.

n_RQ, Sunday, 10 July 2005 11:30 (twenty years ago)


theres always fantastic or uh rickety godard vhss on ebay, i bot histoires but wished id bought the soundtrack box. i want to see made in usa the most. masculin is my favorite tho. i also picked up some godard authored tract a cpl months ago, recent, called like cinema, maybe i shd read it today? its ben embarassing me

007 (thoia), Sunday, 10 July 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

Made in USA is on a new UK Godard set. (w/ Pierrot Le Fou and Prenom Carmen)

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 10 July 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

and the latest Criterion news re: Godard is their forthcoming release of Masculin/Feminin

BOUT FUCKING TIME, SHEESH.

New Yorker Video is also putting out Week-end this August.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 10 July 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

I notice that none of the Criterion Godard releases are "director-approved," which I guess shouldn't surprise me one jot.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 10 July 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

try to get godard involved in a video production without him holding forth for ten hours on the 'end of cinema' and so forth. or a discourse on the metaphysics of aspect ratios. this was the subject of a recent (last year?) piece for cahiers du cinema. i guess i'm supposed to find him charming as an old man and such but i read stuff like that and i guess it's a little emperor's-new-clothes for me. i mean, he's apeshit batty, and the editors are like "hm, godard's poetics of the aspect ratio is quite provocative." bleh. but yeah he's made a lot of great movies.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 10 July 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

Heh. His writing has been pretty crazy since he started making movies. His movies are still charming!

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 10 July 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

i haven't found his last few very charming.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 10 July 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

rewatching THE IMAGE BOOK (2018) as a treat to myself and wondering if the many extracts it's quilted from are anywhere definitively listed, ideally in the actual order they appear (including repeats)

(by which i mean listed on the internet: the credits do include a list which i assume is at least a start and i guess i could just grab a pencil and paper and press pause a lot -- but on this day of all days i'm allowed to be lazy and find out if any ilxors know of a solid shortcut)

mark s, Friday, 7 June 2024 19:06 (two years ago)

https://letterboxd.com/thisisdrew/list/the-image-book/ this works?

fpsa, Friday, 7 June 2024 20:01 (two years ago)

ooh yes, that is a very good start, thank you

mark s, Friday, 7 June 2024 20:13 (two years ago)

Ok, got to see the Rosselini Jesus movie

xyzzzz__, Friday, 7 June 2024 21:07 (two years ago)

Finished Godard On Godard:

The first section, featuring his earliest, pseudonymous writings, is I think solely of historical interest - lots of grand pronouncements, vague tossed off sentences, recurring attempts to elevate movies by comparing them to sundry important names in literature - anything to avoid actually describing the film, criticism as an imposition of taste rather than insight into the art. This is fine - they don't teach criticism in schools, it's normal to be feeling your way around the dark at first, I certainly did - but boy was I worried that all of it would be like this.

Thankfully he does evolve: as one gets further into the book, there is much more care given to actually describing what is happening onscreen, in terms of shots, editing, acting, use of colour, etc. He does still frequently throw in some random enigmatic phrase; at this stage, I would wager that with about half of these, if you challenged him on them he would be able to (though probably not willing to) explain the reasoning that lead him to them, and half are just stuff he's saying because it sounds good. Kind of unfair to single out Godard anyway, the enigmatic aphorism is such a huge part of French intellectual thought in general. And every now and then he hits upon a sentence that sums things up perfectly, even if I can't entirely explain in what way.

I'm big on the idea that you shouldn't judge critics by what movies they like, but of course there's a sense of kinship sneaking in for me as he heaps praise on Tashlin, Ray, Welles. He's good on stuff he doesn't like, too, at least when he deigns it with a full review - much more common is the random sideswipe, so we are given to think that, say, Pagnol is worthless without much explanation why. He's surprisingly enthusiastic about Vadim early on; respectful but distanced from Antonioni; considers Visconti a metteur en scene as opposed to an auteur and I have no idea why. Worst is the Mizoguchi essay, where he casually mentions that film festival audiences split themselves into Kurosawa fans and Mizoguchi fans and then quotes some dude who is like "it's a stupid debate, Mizoguchi is way better!". I prefer Kurosawa, but what annoys here more is the implication that Japan gets to have one (1) auteur and we have to decide which one.

The final section of the book is from when he's directing, and consists of interviews as well as some letters and speeches. I was surprised by how open Godard is about his process, no attempts to appear mysterious, no lecturing the interviewer on not having understood. It's like, after all those years reporting back what's onscreen, he now can't wait to tell about how it comes about - quite endearing!

It cuts off before the estrangement from Truffaut and so the prickly Godard who turns on his friends is in no evidence - Truffaut, Chabrol, Varda, Demy, Resnais all come in for unqualified praise.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 10 June 2024 10:40 (two years ago)

> what annoys here more is the implication that Japan gets to have one (1) auteur and we have to decide which one

i thought the lack of japanese films in the list posted above was a bit odd (although maybe the list is incomplete)

koogs, Monday, 10 June 2024 11:14 (two years ago)

FWIW, the Japanese section of Truffaut's The Films In My Life is pretty thin too (I think it was even omitted in some editions).

an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 10 June 2024 12:41 (two years ago)

See, I read that and my knee-jerk reaction is that I wish there were still Mizoguchi fans squaring off against the Kurosawa army in any tangible sense

Rich E. (Eric H.), Monday, 10 June 2024 13:21 (two years ago)

Mizoguchi is oft canonized and criterionized still.

I don't begrudge Godard or Truffaut not knowing a lot of Japanese cinema - I'm sure it was pretty difficult to see stuff beyond Ozu, Mizoguchi and Kurosawa - it's accepting the framing of "well here's two directors from Japan, we must face them off against each other" that I find questionable.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 10 June 2024 13:41 (two years ago)

xpost Hear hear! Team Mizoguchi all the way.

completely suited to the horny decadence (Capitaine Jay Vee), Monday, 10 June 2024 13:42 (two years ago)

xpost
To be slightly fair to Godard and Truffaut, it was pretty difficult to see most Japanese films outside of Japan until well into the 1960s (the first international Ozu retrospective, for example, didn't take place until 1963). Kurosawa was always something of an exception.

Ward Fowler, Monday, 10 June 2024 13:45 (two years ago)

If the S&S polls teach us anything is that once more films become available in the first place the stuff that was there before is seen in a different way.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 10 June 2024 13:53 (two years ago)

one year passes...

Histoire(s) du cinéma Blu Ray anybody?

https://www.radiancefilms.co.uk/products/histoires-du-cinema-and-other-works-le

the Don King of donking (Noodle Vague), Friday, 10 April 2026 18:51 (two months ago)

Oh go on then. The Histoire{s) DVD I've got is perfectly serviceable, but all the extras on that Radiance set are pretty undeniable - and I like the idea of the annotating subtitles (something that I think would really have annoyed JLG - good!)

Ward Fowler, Friday, 10 April 2026 19:09 (two months ago)


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