london restaurants

'Cheap ethnic restaurants' is not the same as 'you do best eating cheaply in areas with a strong immigrant community' tho? The former is usually to be avoided, the latter is good advice. I'm specifically thinking of when I used to live on Green Lanes. Aside from quality, which was generally very good to perfectly adequate, the main factor that appealed was that, if I didn't want to cook, I could go out and have lentil or lamb soup, with plenty of turkish bread and a lahmacun, or a meat stew, + a glass of ayran and a glass of mint tea, with an extraordinarily generous array of salads, olives and dips, for under a fiver.

It was the same with the toss up between chai roti and ragam the other day. The food at chai roti was very good, but it was slightly too expensive and too tightly portioned, and not quite good enough to get it to win out over pepper soup, a dosai and a beer at Ragam. The whole street food thing gestures at cheap and dirty ampleness, but you can really taste the margins.

Ragam has been a constant for the 20+ years I've lived in London, but is somehow under the radar for most people, so *always has a table*.

I'm excited to try Ruby's but as with all Americana/burger places, I'm very picky. Ruby's owner used to work with me on a magazine project so I've been trolling him on FB with tales of drugstore soda fountains and short-order cooking therein.

xxpost i have a friend who lives in hamburg! he always complains abt the food, except for some super authentic thai place - interested?

My mate just moved back from Hamburg and this must be the same place she was raving about. She's veggie and found it quite hard to find good veggie food there for cheap.

Dunno fizzles, maybe in terms of quantity I agree with you about the margins, but lots of the street stuff uses higher quality ingredients.

On the craft beer thing i suppose largely I don't understand how a tiny trend can be irritating, but personally I've made a strong effort to eradicate the part of me that reacts to thing I read on the internet.

Ideally there wouldn't be a need for craft beer pubs cos all pubs would sell decent beer, but until that day. That said there are no "craft beer and burger" bars, like, none exist.

What's the hamburg thai restaurant btw? Just had schnitzel in some place a German pal suggested. It was... big.

Anyone know their German beers? I'm pleasantly surprised by how much I'm enjoying some of the helles stuff.

almost: http://www.beerdbristol.com/

my french housemate always giggles at the idea of gastropubs as "gastro" in french = gastroenteritis

in Australian too

though it hasn't stopped "good living" newspaper section writers from feebly trying to make gastropub happen

What's the hamburg thai restaurant btw?

lol this is what my friend said - the thai place is in the old star club on grosse freiheit in the reeperbahn. its down an alleyway and it is in an unmarked door - its not officially a restaurant. the door is next to the old star club sign on the window... open thurs, fri, sat evenings

also if you want advice on ordering... most of the classic stuff is best. pad thai is the best ive had outside of thailand, the som tam is excellent and you can get isaan som tam as well, the laab is good, the yum woon sen is good, they do whole fried fish in curry sauce which is very good - all the curries are excellent actually, also the best ive had out of thailand - very strong rich and oily homemade paste.

That said there are no "craft beer and burger" bars, like, none exist.

Three Compasses / Sebright Arms / Shacklewell Arms?

It's mostly either burger places that mostly sell craft beer or pubs whose menu is largely burger-based, I can't think of many places who are actively promoting themselves as "craft beer and burgers".

Ideally there wouldn't be a need for craft beer pubs cos all pubs would sell decent beer, but until that day

Dunno, there's loads of good beer available in London that doesn't sit in the craft beer camp. Also while a lot of craft beer is delicious an increasing amount of the stuff on the market is overhopped and not that nice. "Craft beer" isn't an automatic marker of quality.

It's obviously better than the tedious "three lagers, Guinness and an ale" uniformity of 10 years ago though, don't get me wrong.

matt i believe what you call "overhopped" i call "starting to get there"

having been in america for a couple of weeks, the scales have fallen from my eyes re: the endlessly debated microvariations in british "sweaty gym sock" light-sweet ale styles (yes this is technical terminology)

i mean not everything has to be as mouth-puckeringly chewy as heady topper (brewed in waterbury, VT) but give me something to fucking taste, please

Too many of those super-hoppy US beers sure taste strong but are really badly balanced IMO. Garrett Oliver's line about it being the equivalent of a chef going "you know how salt makes food taste better? Well I am going to put SO MUCH SALT in this beer that you can barely eat it" is apposite here. Please note I drink quite a lot of delicious American beer.

It's mostly either burger places that mostly sell craft beer or pubs whose menu is largely burger-based, I can't think of many places who are actively promoting themselves as "craft beer and burgers".

Are you saying that places which sell craft beer + burgers are not to be considered "craft beer and burger" places because they don't mnarket themselves by saying "we sell craft beer + burgers"? Or are you drawing a distinction between pubs and 'craft beer bars' as being different kinds of places?

I'm drawing a distinction between places that are first and foremost eateries and places that are drinking establishments that happen to serve food. It's not really a pub/bar thing.

There aren't many (currently) but they do exist! There will be more, too, trust me.

It's obviously better than the tedious "three lagers, Guinness and an ale" uniformity of 10 years ago though, don't get me wrong.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 10:49 (22 minutes ago) Bookmark

'To be honest I don't get that,' adds Carragher. 'I mean, what do you expect from a World Cup? Are you expecting the fair every afternoon?'

Haha so many points to discuss bit first should say I am going to try that Thai place tonight, thanks for the tip! I've been cooking loads of Thai food lately so it's timely.

(BTW had a burger here last night - it was late - and it had coleslaw in it! And a big bread roll bun, and cheddar, FFS.)

I agree with you Matt, largely, on the beer thing. But even tho I like lots of British ales it is v v rare for a pub to stock a nice one, rarer still for it to be well kept. And a bad ale is just truly rotten.

Actually I also think some of the British craft beers are among the best, kernel, thornbridge, magic rock, and brewdog in particular.

it is v v rare for a pub to stock a nice one, rarer still for it to be well kept. And a bad ale is just truly rotten.

are you saying most beer in most pubs is truly rotten?

has a craft kebab van been opened yet? if not i'm so doing it.

kebabs made from locally sourced rats

Think it has, Ken!

Ledge no that's not what I'm saying, at all. But thanks for attempting to imply it is, really classy and genial stuff there.

This is a bit two years ago, but I went to Hix earlier in the week, it was a really good meal and a cool room but I struggled to equate the actual food I was eating with the prices. Like their steaks were more expensive than the Hawksmoor. The cocktail bar downstairs is amazing though.

TBH I'm seeing craft beer or at the very least some interesting independently brewed beer in more and more pubs but a big part of that may be the Antic pub group and its ongoing takeover of South London.

yeah i'm not really keen on hix's places

Man, if you say bad things about the Antic Pub Group in this thread, I will cry. They are the best thing to happen to Streatham since Cynthia Payne.

Not at all, they have dramatically improved the drinking options in the area, especially in former pub deserts like Lewisham and Catford. The Royal Albert in New Cross in particular is an excellent boozer.

Yeah they have a couple of stinkers but they're OK.

Had a look for this Thai place now, nothing visible by day, tho it is beside a club called something with pussy in it. I'll have another look tonight, maybe it's the catholic in me but the rieperbahn is grim and extremely unsexy.

I mean I only spent an hour in the pussy something club and it cost me a fortune!

haha yeah that area does sound pretty dodgy

are you saying most beer in most pubs is truly rotten?

if anyone had suggested that, especially with regard to London pubs, I'd've been in hearty agreement.

Really? I guess I might agree if you meant by volume and included all the nasty chemical lager / ropey Greene King ale etc etc - but I think it's still pretty easy to get a decent pint, and pretty hard to get a genuinely exceptional one. My standards may be lower than yours, though.

my gf is currently looking for new beers for a prob much hated dalston/whitechapel establishment. i think they're looking to replace the crystal tap and get some new interesting bottles. suggestions are welcome!

anyone been to Dabbous?

http://dabbous.co.uk/

No! The waiting list! Would love to!

(Crackle: kinda depends what they want, what the're trying to do. I'm afraid I don't even know what "crystal tap" is!)

The Kernel

Crackle Box, I think the Whitechapel establishment yr gf works for is my local. I agree the Crystal could do with a change. I would prefer to the replacement to be a draught. I'm not an expert but I do like Vedett Extra Blond!

should try and get the Death or Glroy from Tring Brewery. Real nice.

Any recs for me? Anna's goth luncheon? I like the more veg and Asian side of the spectrum.
How is Cafe Grove? Has anyone tried Viet Hoa? What about Goddards Ye Olde Pie Shop?

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, August 21, 2003 4:17 AM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what is ANNA'S GOTH LUNCHEON?!

i have been to dabbous TWICE, brilliant

Really? I guess I might agree if you meant by volume and included all the nasty chemical lager / ropey Greene King ale etc etc - but I think it's still pretty easy to get a decent pint, and pretty hard to get a genuinely exceptional one. My standards may be lower than yours, though.

― Tim, Thursday, August 2, 2012 3:35 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

Yeah, I'm slightly wary of being pompous about alcohol - generally the price/alcohol ratio is an important enough consideration to make other pronouncements seem ancillary.

However, think the standard of most London pubs is more or less dire. Lines aren't cleaned frequently enough for the use they get. Bitter sits in the barrels for too long. Glasses are warm or dirty. Premium lager tends to be fine, but that's what it's there for - sure i taste watering down - still! - in some pubs. I have to defend Greene King as well! There's free house pub that serves Greene King near me and it tastes great! Like Bass and Adnams it has to be kept well: cool not cold, plus the factors mentioned above. Pride's more resilient, as is appropriate/necessary for a London beer.

Pubs in general are often either dirty (sticky tables, smell of rancid, vinegary beer, or ill-cleaned toilets) or over clean (tables wiped down with disinfectant before 11pm).

Service can be astonishingly poor, not out of malice or indifference, but inexperience. You'll often see a bar of five staff serve people more slowly than a similarly busy bar with just two experienced bar servers.

Completely agree with Matt DC's comments about craft beer. Microbrewery stuff is usually terrible - totally bland and tasteless (there are v good exceptions). Craft beers seem to be attempting a combination of strength and hoppiness that becomes unpleasant in surfeit. Beer isn't like wine, and tasting doesn't interest me one whit; I want something that sustains the convivial course of an evening. I like to find somewhere good and stay there all night if possible.

I'm sure I had some clause in there about personal preference being all important when it comes to drink, and equally sure that on ilx such clauses are pointless and redundant.

WHERE CAN I GET SOME KEDGEREE?

I cannot express my excitement to eat food in London

have been to dabbous TWICE, brilliant

― hardhouse banter (tpp), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:34 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

braaaaaaaggiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnn

WHAT IS DABBOUS

ok that looks kinda too STARK for me.