2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

ok, maybe that's a little unfair.

You don't think Iraq would be better off if we stayed until 2012? Mccain might actually try to do that.

xpost yeah basically.

anyway this is off-topic i guess

not particularly. it seems to me like the various parties are holding their breaths to see how long the US will stay. When we leave, they'll start in at each others' throats (Saudis backing the Sunnis, Iran backing the Shi'a, nobody backing the Kurds who will be fighting Turkey, etc.). However, if a public commitment is made to stay indefinitely, then the motivation for those parties to hold their fire will evaporate, and shit will start up again, with the primary goal being to get the US out.

at least that's how I see it at the moment.

(x-post)

might be better, might be worse, might not make a lick of difference. Depends on a lot more than us.

like if we say we're gonna be there til 2012, I don't think Iraqis in general will be all "oh okay, that's cool, we can wait"

but Hurting OTM basically

It depends on American troops staying in Iraq for a 100 years.

If McCain wins you will DEFINITELY see shit get worse in the short run.

why

for the reasons I stated - Iraqis will see it as a commitment to continued US troop presence, which they don't want and will actively fight against.

Because McCain has made clear he wants U.S. troops to stay, so any militant parties who want U.S. troops to leave are going to come out full force

what shakey said

and I don't even mean that as an argument against voting for McCain, at least not directly.

I'm not saying "Vote for Obama so the insurgents will be quiet," I'm just saying "Don't have the illusion that McCain is going to secure the country using an indefinite troop presence"

there hasn't been a rolling Iraq thread in a while has there?

yeah, i meant to start one instead of hijacking this one, but i...didn't.

i started one, sorry for the dismal pun d00ds

Yeah, I wondered if Ned had stopped the precious tradition of the 'It's [month/year] in Iraq'. Shame.

It's February 2008 in Iraq

Ah, that's good to see!

There's not been as much to report on the rolling months thread this month because while there's been a lot of ugly business, a lot of it is in undercurrents. So far.

I have a question for you Americans : does Obama's personal history merely give racists a sort of an easy excuse, so they can attack his "cultural background" or "religious background" instead of coming with explicitly racist comments ("we don't want a black president")? If he was a regular, descended-from-slaves African-American without an Arabic middle name and a childhood in Indonesia, would the racists find other "cultural" excuses to attack him without speaking of race explicitly? Or would American people then accept him more easily?

would the racists find other "cultural" excuses to attack him without speaking of race explicitly?

^yes

What sort of attacks would a regular African-American candidate have to face then?

not being authentically black by virute of middle class upbringing

that wouldn't work though.

Depends on the candidate. Might get painted as too "angry" or "divisive," or as not being as "qualified" without real justification for the claim; might face sexual innuendos (Harold Ford Jr.). Hard to say because there have been so few in national races.

yeah that Harold Ford Jr. smear campaign was pretty awful...

yah associating him w/traditional stereotypes by saying hes not that kinda like bidens clean articulate routine. or saying plainly racist shit in the vaguest of terms. or having your more fringe surrogates in radio and the internet push racist messages to create a stir in the mainstream media where even if its being condemned the message is still circulating.

all of which is happening now - just not as grandly as the muslim angle.

even stuff like bill clinton comparing him to jesse jackson - which is just basically pointing out the fact that hes black (and therefor not a serious candidate).

I don't think most white voters would attack a black candidate for lacking *authenticity* (if anything they'd have more problem with a candidate that DID seem *authentically black*) and I don't see much evidence that black voters would either as long as the candidate had the right politics

oh yeah also you might see attacks implying that people ONLY like the candidate because of his race -- a lot of this is already happening with Obama, btw

but who does the "clean, articulate"/ "not 'authentically' black" line-of-attack alienate? if anything it helps him in a weird, messed-up way.. paints him as a "safe"/"good negro" to majority of the electorate...

the point of attacking his authenticity is to associate him w/the culture hes supposedly unlike - theyre tricky like that.

like just as long as obama and black have appeared in an argument where blackness is derided their job is done.

yeah exactly. You hear defensive conservatives posit some *alternative* black candidate all the time to make themselves feel less racist. Hillary + Barack in primary = "Now if only Condi were running! She's so intelligent!"

(exactly was xpost)

search: rove, trash talking, lazy, pickup basketball

barackobamaembarassedyouinthreeonthree.com

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080228/i/r315812455.jpg?x=400&y=307&sig=8rYHTMnbyW0zvTfAYVf_hw--

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endorsement today? Richardson for Hillary? Edwards for Obama?

is that the rumor? richardson didn't sound like he'd be endorsing the clintons in some quote I read yesterday

haha "the clintons" i didn't even mean that consciously

With either endorsement, does it really make a difference at this point? I could see where it might have been helpful a little bit earlier in the game, but it seems a little too late now.

endorsement today? Richardson for Hillary? Edwards for Obama?

is that the rumor?

links?

i have a hard time thinking a richardson endorsement means anything now, NM already voted and no-one else cares (maybe texas? dunno)

i could easily see both going the other way, but the richardson quote i saw sounded hillary-friendly

obv TX, and Edwards in OH

both candidates are in TX

lol who would endorse hillary now

I am so grateful for this thread keeping me as low as 20th on the monthly #posts toteboard. I almost feel like I have a life!

hillary takes roves advice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M70emIFxETs