Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

xxpost forks it's taken 4 attempts on other threads tbh but yeah, this is p cool

i just find the "rape jokes are ok if they're funny" stance to be really flawed because what we find funny is so subjective! i mean i think most of the jokes on that list are pretty bad! like i've read a lot of people that criticize the tosh joke because it's "not even funny" and i think that's really missing the point.

i've yet to see any evidence that louis is thoughtful or considerate on this subject. that's why i felt the need to bring it up on this thread.

Well, to clarify, I said on "a lot of topics", because I don't know where he comes down on what type of rape joke is acceptable or not.

"acceptable" in the sense of what he would put in his set, I should say. I think it's clear that he's fine with whatever comedians do, because he's very protective of the craft. Which again I understand but I don't fully agree with.

i am just reposting this video because it's quasi-relevant - discussing audience reactions to personally potentially hurtful content, & an example of the sorta bind involved, w/there being at least some attempt to address that - & bc it's good to rewatch. bene OTM re: the "it's not even funny" thing being a canard. i think upthread i am pushing for a not totally dissimilar distinction between jokes that are not just referential to rape, in which its alluded to or used or w/e, but it's that tosh was using it as a topic with which to attack someone that's so awful, to me, the content or context almost an aside. it's really true that's the what's funny is subjective, so something's-fine-cause-it's-funny is flawed, but i do think it leaves a weird dilemma, which is that people pointedly not discussing something that might be offensive, something similarly subjective, is a restriction on where people can go on stage, & that the personal code of i'm not going to go there because it's provocative butts up against the MO of some comedians as general like social commentators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc

would like to draw this out of shlump's post post:

it is a rape joke; it is in incredibly personal territory that risks by its very mention dragging its audience into personally difficult ground; & yet i sorta feel like it's true that comedy is one of the closest things that has a license to plumb this shit, & that there is some possibility of catharsis & social use in having an arena in which it isn't off-limits.

this is my thought wrt most offensive art. my way of putting is that it gives me a chance to look directly at this horrible thing without the gut reaction of immediately turning away or giving it the massive emotional energy required to understand it even a little. also, most jokes about terrible things are throwaways. they shift the tone dramatically but then the performer brings it back around to something palatable. this ain't like chris rock's joke about how black people have their own porn.

not sure I want male comedians leading the charge of exploring rape as a territory for comedy yknow?
I like louis ck a lot and love this show but his defense of horrible comedians is never agl

And there are some good takedowns of the Lindy West Jezebel one, yeah, but I think both sides have made good points and bad points.

Do you have some links you could list here? I'd like to read some of them.

Not that I'm trying to make anyone my intern, I just wouldn't know the good articles to read, necessarily.

This was posted elsewhere: http://modernistwitchery.tumblr.com/post/27126517583/a-response-to-lindy-wests-how-to-make-a-rape-joke

Some of the ones I read are buried in other peoples' retweets on my twitter feed. I'll have a look a bit later. /Saturdays

that modernist witchery post was written by my friend jessica...she is amazing

the internet right now is a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to a response to Daniel Tosh

have you not seen the internet before

i've been thinking about this a lot. i don't really have a choice.

not sure I want male comedians leading the charge of exploring rape as a territory for comedy yknow?
this is really spot on. also, maybe this just doesn't have a place in comedy. i know that comedy can be a high art form that serves as a mirror to society, but in practice we are stuck with a bunch of daniel toshes going for the easiest laughs by being shocking or edgy. i'm just not sure comedy is the best place for this dialogue to take place. i certainly think that other art forms - music, fiction, film etc. are appropriate places to deconstruct and comment on rape, when done in a thoughtful and appropriate manner. but if we say it's ok to make rape jokes that are "funny" EVERYONE is going to make rape jokes, because every professional comedian thinks that their own jokes are funny.

the crux of the matter to me is that there is a risk that your words can cause real, actual harm. so make a rape joke. you may make a few people laugh. but the other side of that coin is that you may make other people:
1) have a PTSD episode, or other psychological repercussions
2) feel frightened or attacked
3) view you as someone who is condoning and perpetuating rape culture in a society where 1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted

are the laughs you might get really worth it? have you educated yourself about sexual violence, listened to and read accounts from survivors, researched the link between sexual violence and mental health? and are you confident that you are able to make "the right kind of rape joke" and not the wrong one? is it a worthwhile risk given the harm you could cause?

i've said before that i am a survivor and have made rape jokes in the past as a kind of way of putting distance between myself and what happened to me. at least for me, it was not a lasting or permanent way of dealing with my assaults, not that it couldn't be for other people. but when i realized the other side of making a joke or comment about rape in a casual setting is that it could harm other people, i cut it out.

and for the record, daniel tosh's jokes and the ensuing discussion has been very disruptive to my mental health this week.

thought this ep telegraphed where it was going really quickly and then didn't do anything special once it got there. kinda a disappointment

ok I don't want to read blogs tomorrow but I know I will. I don't know if he made it worse tonight or if he made it "better", if such a thing is even possible anymore.

how would what Louie said on the Daily Show make anything "worse"? what he said was perfect!

what did he say?

he said that feminists are humorless and women need to "shut the fuck up"

He said other things than that, but he did say that, so it's hard to see quite how it was perfect (unless he's going to hunt down Whiney).

He also said that the tweet in question was unconnected to and unaware of the actual Tosh drama - he was on holiday, saw an episode of Tosh.0, sent the tweet.

lol, he actually said that? i thought whiney was just snarking on his 3rd most commonly mentioned twitter television show.

i haven't watched it yet but i have a lot of trouble believing that

he said that feminists are humorless and women need to "shut the fuck up"

awesome. as if i haven't heard that from enough people the last few weeks.

yeah louie ck h8s u bro, sorry

the main thing he said was he was completely unaware of the Tosh controversy when he sent the tweet and was just in his hotel room watching the guy's show and wanted to compliment him. but he also said he read a lot of the criticism/speculation online and learned some things, and had a funny bit about why comedians and bloggers are the 2 worst groups to be in conflict with each other, and did that thing comedians do where they make saying something awful funny and Whiney did that thing sanctimonious people on the internet do where they quote it out of context to make it seem worse.

had a funny bit about why comedians and bloggers are the 2 worst groups to be in conflict with each other

this is probably enough information that i can fill in the details myself, but why is that? (is that where the 'blogs are humorless' comment came in?)

I can't find a clip anywhere but the gist of it is described here:

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/07/17/528161/louis-ck-tosh-twet/

tbf mordy i summarized it badly/inaccurately, here's what he actually said:

It’s also a fight between comedian and feminists, which are natural enemies, because stereotypically speaking, feminists can’t take a joke…And on the other side, comedians can’t take criticism…I’ve read some blogs during this whole thing that have made me enlightened to things I didn’t know. This woman said how rape is something that polices women’s lives. They have a narrow corridor. They can’t go out late, they can’t go to certain neighborhoods, they can’t get a certain way, because they might get—That’s part of me now that wasn’t before. And I can still enjoy a good rape joke…This is also about men and women…Couples are fighting about Daniel Tosh and rape jokes. That’s what I’ve been reading on blogs. But they’re both making a classic gender mistake on this. Because the women are saying ‘This is how I feel about this.’ But they’re also saying ‘My feelings should be everyone’s primary concern.’ But the men are making this mistake, they’re saying ‘Your feelings don’t matter. Your feelings are wrong, and your feelings are stupid.’…To the men I say, ‘Listen. Listen to what the women are saying for a minute.’ And to the women, I say ‘Now that we heard you, now shut the fuck up for a minute.’

Hah, xposted I was about to post the quotes.

Which is on the one hand is not the same as balanced, but better than the abridged Whiney edition. On the other hand as long as there are Whineys, it's hard to see why to bother.

It's missing something without "now let's all get together and kill the Jews."

it's really weird how Louie came to even get involved in this at all, maybe we don't need to overanalyze every single tweet a person sends and assume there's a dozen lines of subtext behind it

also lol @ Whiney trying to stir up shit and failing miserably

well he's happy as long as we give him attention and make the thread about him for even a few minutes

bene gesserit otm itt

bene gesserit otm itt

― max, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 15:07 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^

the "let's all get together and kill the jews" punchline made me laugh, so there I am.

imo the funniest thing the daily show has aired in the past couple years was basically 5 minutes of rape jokes:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/kristen-schaal-explains-rape-rape-to-jon-stewart/

Here's the clip: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k-

The transcript makes it seem worse imo.

not really feeling this season :-/

his bit on TDS had me and my gf in stitches though

Yeah, not enough lolz. That last ep was particularly boring to me.

This show seems to be getting less funny over time but I kinda of feel it's getting better all the same

I always get beat up for saying that the show has taken a wrong turn, but after the 1st three episodes I can't see it any other way. It's like he's been reading his raves too much and now considers himself a humanist artiste. The things that made the show so great before--where he translates bits into acted out situations, like when the young woman comes on to him saying she is turned on by the smell of death--are all but gone. Also, the subtle self-aggrandizement beneath his schmielhood is getting worse (I think a critic termed it his "victimhood"). I'd love to hear from people who think these three episodes are up there with the best.

the 4th episode last night was pretty good imo. i've always been kind of on the fence about the show but i think it's been fine this season -- early episodes full of dramatizations of standup bits were not that great imo.

3 >> 4 >>> 2 >>>>> 1 of this season.

it's abt the same as it's always been in my eyes, there might be less plot/story than ever this season & ppl may be a bit confounded

yeah seems like we are being set up for some sort of continuity

funniest episode of this season, I'd say

that's damning it with faint praise, Darin

To you

I found this last one really...sweet, actually. Weirdly. Of course that may fall apart next week.

nah, happily ever after for sure

Iago's otm here. CK is believing his own hype.

I was pleased with last night's episode though. First good one of the season. I actually laughed at the joke where he's having sex with Parker Posey and - because it's a bookstore - books are flying all over the place. First time I've laughed at this season.