People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?

^ i think it was the article you posted that framed it this way to begin w/

i dunno about houses in general, but i think buying all of michigan would be a good investment.

revive was worth it for the grampsy appearance

xp Stop saying that! Don't give anyone ideas.

too late i bought michigan

Ill give you five bucks for it

Live in the UP, rent out the rest.

too late sold up to wisconsin

real estate is not an investment. your house is not going to turn into an ipad factory, it's going to turn into a worse house. and the 'leverage' that you are using is 'leverage' in the same way that a credit card is 'leverage'. and while you are losing risk in terms of 'where will I live' and 'how much will I pay per month', it comes at an enormous price.

gross generalization dude, it depends on the property, the location, and the timing.

ya I guess if you live in china, 5 years ago, your house might turn into an ipad factoryy

nah, real estate is like many other investments, if you had the good fortune to buy at the right place at the right time, you could have done/could do very well financially.

sometimes property can be *speculative*, you can bet that your neighborhood is gonna get all cool and maybe you'd make some money if that happened then you sold your house. or if you are a carpenter and add another floor to your house, suddenly that's an investment. but just taking out a huge loan to buy a depreciating object that you get to live in isn't an 'investment' anymore than your car is.

you own the land the house is on though (unless you buy a condo), and land doesn't depreciate.

'if you had to fortune to put your chips on the right number at the right time' suddenly vegas becomes a great investment opportunity too

yes, but land is worth more than plastic chips.

and let's say you bought a house that is affordable to you, with a 30 year mortgage, and you paid it off, and you continued to live there after those years -- your housing costs are nominal at that point, unless your property taxes get jacked up.

no land is worth what land is worth and plastic chips are worth what plastic chips are worth, and both of their value depends on the demand for that land or for those plastic chips. and enough plastic chips or paper bills are 'worth more' than lots of land is 'worth'. if you want to bet on the future demand for various types of land then you're still not 'investing' anymore than you are when you buy gold, but yes you can 'make money'.

lol @ iatee sticking to his guns so damn hard that he has to put scare quote around 'make money' to make it fit his argument

if you want to bet on the future demand for various types of land then you're still not 'investing' anymore than you are when you buy gold

people buy gold as an investment. people buy land as an investment. yes.

let's say that instead of saving money 'in your house' you saved money 'out of your house', then 30 years from now you would have that same money, and you could buy a house if you wanted xp

ideally, from a financial health perspective you would be doing both. home ownership isn't a problem, it's people spending too much money (relatively-speaking) on houses that's the problem.

home ownership isn't a problem, it's useful for some people in some situations, it's just not something we need to encourage w/ massive tax breaks

are you talking about first time homebuyers credits, mortgage interest deductions, exemptions from early withdrawal penalties for IRAs ??? something new?

i think we just need to find a way to make sure that the land speculated on will rise in value

http://www.sidekickcomicsuk.com/blogs/media/blogs/sidekick//genelex.jpg

man, where is my realtor? i want to find out where my "massive tax breaks" went when i bought my house.

why would I not be talking about any of those

xp

jon you should have sarah do your taxes maybe

the mortgage interest deduction is interesting from a historical perspective - like, it's still around, whereas deductions for interest on car loans and personal credit cards all went away with that 1986 tax bill, that I'm blanking on the name of atm

I think the solution is really to just kill off anyone that owns a car, then kill off people that own land, then move everyone else into iatee's building and he might be happy.

the thing that make real estate a bad investment isnt really its rate of return + other ancillary benefits which could be good or bad depending its that its illiquid and undiversified

the thing that make real estate a bad investment isnt really its rate of return + other ancillary benefits which could be good or bad depending its that its illiquid and undiversified

unless you own a lot of it, in different areas and of different types

right, so if you are a real estate company it becomes an investment

right those problems refer to people who buy a single house to live in it, not like real estate companies or w/e

tho tbf real estate investment is a p dicey business too

well, it also depends on the function of the investment. Like it should be considered a long-term investment - like, you buy it when you're young and live in it until you die or have to go to the nursing home. but as someone pointed out upthread, i think it was jon, houses can also be used for temporary cash flow problems, like the person starting a business.

another thing that can be used for temporary cash flow problems is almost any other investment that the money would otherwise be in

and man, let me tell you, if you have a profitable business and do some of the work out of a home you own, the tax benefits are really enviable.

xp - uh, taking money out of an IRA or an employer retirement plan before you reach retirement age is a bad idea, the penalties are higher than mortgage interest rates.

selling stock is a much easier and cheaper than refinancing yr house

if that stock is in a standard brokerage account and not in an IRA or other retirement savings account (which is where most people put their savings), then yes, you are right.

yes, that's why I said "almost"

yes, but that's a minority of investments, as far as the American public is concerned!

'this is what the american public thinks' is, if anything, a good way to argue against an idea

would be curious to see a break down on penalties paid on withdrawing ira funds early v interest paid on 2nd mortgages, nah no i woulndt n/m just kill me now

I'm not saying that that's what they think, I am saying that the majority of Americans who have money investment in stocks, bonds, etc. have it invested through retirement plans that carry significant penalties (10% federal, some states assess penalties as well, California's penalty is 2.5%) for taking money out early.

that only on the earnings tho, not the principal

?

rule of thumb: if you get a tax deduction/reduction for putting it into the account, it is taxable coming out (and subject to penalties for being taken out early)

a. there are other ways to save money, whether or not they are currently the norm
b. upthread there was evidence that people who own houses are less likely to start a business, so the fact that we are talking about how great it is that you can take money out of your house to start a business is like some ouroboros argument