gender fuck or gender fucked (the politics of trans)

Please do not presume to tell me how you think that *I* read or relate to ILX. Or how I should read or relate to ILX.

Thanks. The end.

Um, no. Request denied.

Thanks. The beginning??!?!

Srsly, you think you're the one human being to get the Get Out of Being Judged Free card? Give me a break.

I, for one, am interested in what kind of nuanced read Lorax would have on gender after research. His well-researched 9/11 ideas are definitely worth pondering.

Believe it or not ppl itt were not giving Lorax grief for being at 101 but for his blatant refusal to research, look up, learn, listen.

I think Lorax was dismissive because, in his mind, the problem wasn't that his premises were misguided (as others tried in vain to indicate to him) but that he hadn't explained himself well enough. His evident frustration made me feel bad for him, even if the intellectual content of his argument was worth rebutting.

it is nice to picture lorax's points being made by the actual lorax

http://kidfriendlyva.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/lorax1.jpg

I think Lorax was dismissive because, in his mind, the problem wasn't that his premises were misguided (as others tried in vain to indicate to him) but that he hadn't explained himself well enough. His evident frustration made me feel bad for him, even if the intellectual content of his argument was worth rebutting.

dude spent several posts championing the primacy of SCIENCE! and then busted out with:

I think I'm only prejudiced in that the reason that I first entertained this theory of mine is because I was thinking about sexual norms. I have a theory and no answer; so I'm not gonna proclaim that gender and sexual orientation are NOT mutually exclusive. But I will lean towards NOT mutually exclusive because i feel like it

He was not interested in "explaining himself", he was interested in everyone going "omg you are brilliant, what a remarkable breakthrough in scientific thought on bisexuality", as is common with every other argument he puts out there. He is not interested in anything but self-aggrandizement and deserves every bit of mocking and ridicule he gets.

tbf, dude doesn't get out much and is attention-farming the best he can

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xuvfYwzKp7g/TFkHG8cfjfI/AAAAAAAAAl4/a0aCFj99vMo/s1600/Mass+Effect+2+-+Mordin+Solus+LOL.jpg

http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/3435/images/3435_MEDIUM.jpg

One of the most noble, kind, just, wise and empathic characters in children’s literature, who always represented defending the defenseless, standing up for the vulnerable, and encouraging social awareness has here been re-imagined as a snarky, cruel, insensitive, cissexist, gender-policing asshole, who mocks variance in gender presentation, and tramples over the defenseless and vulnerable in the name of maintaining cisnormativity (and making the producers a few extra dollars selling Happy Meals).

I don't know about that, he reached a point where he wasn't trying to communicate any new wrinkle that we'd missed, but was just defending The Spirit of Enquiry.

xp yeah, DJP OTM

I think he saw ILX as a place where people would be willing to entertain or ignore his drunk ideas, not a place where people would basically tell him that he deserved to die for the thought, common mistake

Less the Spirit of Inquiry and more the Spirit of Making Shit Up While High xp

When your ideas start offending people and you don't apologize, I stop having sympathy for you.

That, and the stuff CL was typing into the box was so far from being germane to the topic that it was basically time cube level nonsense.

i'm a little sympathetic. he's clearly a troubled dude. just check out his 9/11 thread. i'm not going to armchair diagnose lorax but when we're talking about privilege let's not forget that being neurotypical is also a privilege.

man this is terrible could we get a lock thread over here

* chews popcorn *

When your ideas start offending people and you don't apologize, I stop having sympathy for you.

I'll try to explain myself. I was drunk and I was wrong and I apologize for that. I'm sorry I forgot how homosexuality is just as natural as heterosexuality. My brain was so focused on whether or not the direct relationship between g and s.o. existed and how different kinds of graphs could express this relationship, that I left out homosexuality from my thought process. I didn't think about more complex direct relationships (more complex graphs) until the next day. Frankly I wasn't thinking much at all

― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:27 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

IMO, saying "I'm sorry, I'm leaving now" and then leaving was exactly the right thing to do

this does not mean that I am going to retroactively decide that Lorax did not deserve any of the harsh things that were said to/about him before that apology, or that if he comes back continuing in his super annoying self-aggrandizing "hey, I'm going to say some super stupid shit to get attention" mode I'm not going to roll my eyes and enjoy the verbal pummeling

if he comes back asking some innocuous question like "can anyone recommend a multivariable calculus book" and ppl tee up with "FOAD YOU USELESS SHIT", all of this concern-trolling will be valid

if CaptainLorax understands multivariable calculus then my reasons for defending him in the first place may be nonexistent

I dunno we need an expert in multivariable calculus round these parts

I could brush up

can anyone recommend a multivariable calculus book

he understands spectographs

he was as much if not moreso concerned with the graphs as with the sexualities supposedly represented by them = something is not quite normo-typical here is it

i never really got what he was getting at. i don't think anyone did, least of all lorax hiself. even so, the fact that people are getting self-righteous about the harm allegedly done by his nonsensical rambling is the craziest thing about this whole clusterfuck.

i don't think that's true either

i do

thanking u for adhering to gricean maxims contendo

lol, i just mean that you don't have to have interacted with lorax too often to get the impression that he's operating on a different wavelength than most.

tell me about these wavelengths

who's being self-righteous, exactly?

http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/6/478949546.png

FWIW arguing that lorax's position is somehow less harmful because he is presumed to be neurologically atypical is weird and deeply patronizing.

his position is less harmful because his eccentricity is seldom malicious. and because he wasn't ever really advocating a "position" in the first place.

really? cause i wasn't particularly concerned when that dude in an elmo costume was making anti-Semitic remarks in Central Park last week. u do have to consider the source of these things. and maybe it's deeply patronizing. so what?

xp

well for my part, i'm not arguing that his ideas aren't harmful or offensive, just that they are of a piece with all the other stuff he's written about on ilx.

I think he kind of knew his idea was B.S. but wanted to discuss it anyway, then got defensive because everyone was jumping down his throat? I dunno I guess that's how I feel these things work

malice is not a prerequisite for harm

this conversation is weird. why is it suddenly that people who have chosen to answer questions and then call someone out on their ensuing misperceptions the ones who are then seen as browbeating that initial someone? just because someone's not malicious, doesn't mean they shouldn't be called out on their misperceptions, and then when he refuses to actually listen to what other ppl are saying, he suddenly becomes a victim? i would think that if someone is being fucked up, they would like to know when they are being fucked up. let's go defend some racists, now, because they didn't mean it maliciously. how many times have well meaning people said fucked up things to me and to anyone else? and we're just not supposed to call them on it because it would make things uncomfortable, or it's not fair to the person who said the original thing, or whatever.

he was already called out two weeks ago! the only reason this is still going on is bc ppl are trying to complete their ilx white knight bingo boards to earn - idk - super poster privileges? here's a fucking gold star, thx for protecting us all from the scourge of ilx, the harmful captain lorax

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/1803807/2/stock-photo-1803807-gold-star-2.jpg

xxp - I think there's something to be said for just letting things slide if you're reasonably sure there's no malice involved, and not, say, telling the guy he deserves to die

ray - I don't think it's that "we shouldn't call people out when they say things that are wrong", its more of "why do we need 25 posters insulting this guy on a personal level a hundred posts after he apologized and left the board, when these people could, y'know, close the browser or something"

obviously i'm a little biased though

malice is not a prerequisite for harm

no, but harm is a prerequisite for harm. no one was harmed. lorax talked some silly drunk shit and then got peevish when called on it. ILX's desperate hunger to find things MORALLY UNACCEPTABLE! is bizarre.

Mordy, I don't get why you're being so venomous about this but nagl, dude.

contenderizer, how do you know no harm was done?