New Yorker magazine alert thread

via alfred

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2012/07/02/120702crbo_books_kolbert?currentPage=all

thought it makes a valid point but geez I wish people would stop it w/ noble savages and all that

― Faith in Humanity: Restored (dayo), Thursday, 28 June 2012 22:54 (Yesterday) Permalink

This is everywhere in parenting right now, unfortunately. "Traditional societies" is the buzzword. Unless you're conservative, in which case it's "the french." But no matter how you slice it, americans are doing in wrong.

love how the two model parenting methods are remote jungle tribe and...the french.

i don't know why that seemed so funny to me.

i definitely agree with a stuff in that article. big time. i made my kids clean stuff for, like, 15 minutes after i read that.

Yeah, it's a great dichotomy. We're either too out of touch with our primal natures or not civilized enough, depending on who you ask.

i made my kids clean stuff for, like, 15 minutes after i read that.

My two-year-old niece's knuckles are still bleeding from scrubbing the bathroom tile.

there's a lot i could say about that article but maybe not here. boring state of parenthood stuff.

It does not make a valid point and it's a horrible article and I can't believe any of you were swayed by it. This was a terrible issue btw.

*goes to his room and bawls hysterically until x-box connected*

We're either too out of touch with our primal natures or not civilized enough, depending on who you ask.

― click here if you want to load them all (Hurting 2), Friday, June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

both!

My kids go or went to Montessori school, which makes self-suffience a priority. That is, pour your own milk, use real glasses, that sort of thing. But I still know better than to expect any standard of cleanliness from my kids. Which or course isn't really an issue in the jungle, or (ha) in France, either.

Also, article is misleading, because afaict, the French *hate* kids. They exist almost separate from the rest of society there, so I don't know what that person is talking about seeing kids out to dinner all the time. I highly doubt it. I can also almost guarantee that the French parent their kids in a way that would seem antiquated to Americans. I bet the dads do jack shit and don't even know how to do the laundry. I have a hunch the French would look at our rise in stay at home dads and scoff, since it's a woman's job to take care of children, etc. Anyway, fuck the French and their bad example. My kids are better.

well, there was that line about French parents letting their kids bawl for ten minutes before doing anything.

josh, france expert

The French hate their kids. That's why they all turn out so French.

Did you know there's a place in France where the ladies wear no pants?

Oui, it's true!

do u have visual confirmation of this and if so how

There's a hole in the wall where the boys can see it all. A kid told me.

Actually, not that I can vouch 100% for its accuracy, but I like to tell other parents about a Times article I read once about doing Paris with kids. I recall thinking, really, Paris, with kids? So I read this article, and one after the other it's like "there's this great museum, but it's not good for kids, but there is a park across the street ..." or "this restaurant is awesome, though not really kid friendly, but if you go for a snack right at 5pm ..."

Parenting is rife with these grass-is-greener scenarios. For example, they toilet train much fast in China. Why? Well, mainly because diapers are so expensive and, given the population, particularly wasteful there, so kids go without. Fine, except that means that little kids are literally shitting all over the place there. When a toddler has to go in China, they just drop le trou.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/11/16/129029044300308878.jpg

that means "they just drop the hole"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_communication

Some of my friends practise this btw. But I have not hung around their kids enough to comment on its efficacy.

mommy wars come to the new yorker thread * sheds tear*

ha my sister just tried that with her kid and they gave up after one day of the kid pissing and shitting all over the house

S1ocki, le pedant

okay i lied i'll say a few things that the article didn't. let's just take the new yorker demo and leave the rest of the peasants out of this. first, people have kids when they are way older now than they did 20 years ago. older educated people do things differently than 20 year old parents, educated or not. they also, usually, work. a lot. they don't leave things to chance as much and the micromanaging of children is usally functional. when i was a kid i never saw my parents because my dad travelled and my mom worked. but i had an older brother and sister who could watch me and there were moms at home all day in our neighborhood. people, in general, had more kids and the age ranges were wider. that isn't true now. people, new yorker people, have one or two kids and if they have two kids they are close in age.

but i think the older parent thing is the key. parents, when they aren't working or the kids aren't in daycare/school, tend to spend more time with their kids and they ARE more paranoid and risk-adverse and they usually plan things out well in advance because of this, but also because they have to. people don't have time to mess around. people work too much to mess around. which is one reason why they don't leave things up to their kids or let them learn the joys of cleaning at an early age. so, there is good and bad with this. there is a closeness that maybe wasn't there in the past. maybe a too closeness. i go to birthday parties now and there are ten parents there drinking wine and talking. my parents never would have done this. they would have dropped me off and run. kids are watched much more closely. they are second-guessed constantly. parents i know speak for their kids constantly. i will ask a kid a question and the parent is right there to answer before the kid can get a word out. then there are the home-schooling people i know...

anyway, things are different! plus, we didn't have sex offender lists when i was a kid (older parents scare easier). but that's enough for now.

even without the new yorker demo, things are very different. in general, women are older when they have kids. and they are in general better educated. they work. less apt to be married. etc. you have to factor in all kinds of societal changes when you talk about a country's kids.

uh that was off the top of my head. so some of it might not make sense. plus i had to stop to sell some comic books.

even comic books have changed. they cost four dollars and they aren't for kids.

a lot of New Yorker audience is urban too, and you'd have to be crazy to let your 5-year-old walk to school alone in NYC

plus, when people were younger and had 4 or 5 kids, they could afford to mess a few of them up. people don't have that luxury now. they are really serious about getting it right even if they get it really wrong.

"get it really wrong" aka "kids these days" aka nothing to worry about really

Scott otm. But Mordy,, slightly less so. That's the free range kids theory, that we worry too much about predators that don't really factor, statistically. However, I do worry about cars running over my kids, which is why we walk together or one takes the bus.

But yeah, Scott otm.

one thing i've learned, kids can survive a LOT. if there are kids who can survive terrible horrible neglectful parents then they can survive over-attentive micro-moms. white people problems in a way. they have too much stuff! they are spoiled! their parents tie their shoes for them! these kids will obviously grow up to be serial killers.

i'm really paranoid about cars. and my kids. i can't help it. i hate cars. too many fucking yahoos around here going 60 in a 30. idiots. i don't trust anyone driving a car, basically.

the movie they keep describing him trying to make sounds sooooo bad, like "Bruce Almighty 2" or something.

Ha ha, yes exactly. I loved the Stiller profile though. It was a great portrait of a certain mindset: the hugely wealthy and successful funnyman who desperately wants to be taken seriously and drives everyone nuts. Even his wife was making fun of his intensity. I'm fascinated by people who seem to have everything and yet are incapable of being satisfied and believe (wrongly) that happiness is just one more movie away.

(My UK sub arrives later so I always seem to be one issue behind on this thread)

its funny too cuz i didn't feel that way living in a city for years. felt safer there as far as traffic. harder to get to 60 in city traffic.

the shit about how Stiller was going to make a Truly Great Original Groundbreaking Film This Time was hilarious, as though a person with no precedential display of that kind of talent could just will it to be true.

i go to birthday parties now and there are ten parents there drinking wine and talking. my parents never would have done this

This is key. There's sometimes more alcohol at kids birthday parties than at adult ones.

"a lot of New Yorker audience is urban too, and you'd have to be crazy to let your 5-year-old walk to school alone in NYC"

Really? That's sad.

Glad I'm not the only one who loved the Stiller profile. for exactly the same reasons as ^^.

(Stillsr also sounds like he would be a great studio head.)

if you don't think it would be crazy to let your 5-year-old walk to school alone in NYC i'm going to guess you probably don't have a lot of experience with large cities?

Pedestrian safety is enough of a reason not to let them do it, even assuming no other risks.

plus they end up spending all their lunch money on 3 card monte.

Www.freerangekids.com

do they deliver to canada

They have to find their own way there.

all parents and children are terrible

Was that Tolstoy?

Dr. Seuss