Fear of death.

"Death is a debt to Nature due, that I have paid, and so must you"

feel like i've been zinged from beyond the grave

the only way i can imagine coming to terms with the fact that i will cease to exist is if, when i'm on my proverbial deathbed, i can look back on the range of experiences that was my life and think "alright, i can't ask for anything more."

this is a good motivator for wringing as much as i can out of my life, but it doesn't offer any comfort with regard to the possibility of dying randomly/unexpectedly in the near future

but it doesn't offer any comfort with regard to the possibility of dying randomly/unexpectedly in the near future

Agreed. I suspect that during a plane crash/traffic accident/"strange loop" type of event my last thought will be an annoyed "really? right now?" rather than anything fearful.

Being afraid of death makes as much sense to me as being upset that you were born in the first place.

i don't know what's scarier - 1)one day you won't exist or 2)you will exist for all eternity. obv i know the latter won't happen so by default it's the former but jeez... fuck...

Extrapolate this further. Is it scary to imagine that in the past you didn't exist? No, cos you existed in your parents, your ancestors, the slime that crawled out of the ocean, the fucking nuclear reaction in the heart of a dying star, etc. You existed for all eternity in the past and will exist for all eternity in the future.

What are you holding on to? Is it consciousness? The experience of being in the world you are having today? Both of those are ephemeral, shifting things.

even if you die the matter and energy in your body remains in the universe until it ends so you still exist

otm

great I'm cured lock thread

...

you guys know that it's an *irrational* fear to begin with right?

I always liked that Seinfeld that has the standup bit where he talks about how on a survey people rated Public Speaking as a bigger fear than Death. And how basically at a funeral you are better off in the coffin than giving the eulogy.

you existed in your parents, your ancestors, the slime that crawled out of the ocean,

No. No, you didn't.

Convincing argument.

Do you not agree with Carl Sagan that we are all star stuff?

Late at night, being star stuff is very very cold comfort.

To quote Ray Bradbury, "I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of not living." That's what we should all be afraid of.

But whatever your driving force is, go with it. Even if it's irrational fear of something inevitable.

We are all star stuff != the star stuff that composes our bodies was us a billion years ago. That's like saying a wooden table existed in a tree. No, the wooden table is made out of the tree.

But if you are feeling poetic about it, you could indeed say that the wooden table existed in the tree. I'm just sayin'.

I don't think I've ever felt that poetic.

I'm never going to die so it doesn't really scare ms

haha xpost to emily

you'd totally be the monk in the story who gets his nose twisted by the Zen Master for not getting it.

Lamp, teach me how to live

http://dougbierend.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/the-denial-of-death-e9b699l.jpg

(Actually a great book.)

you'd totally be the monk in the story who gets his nose twisted by the Zen Master for not getting it.

No, I'd be the person telling the Zen Master that he's full of shit, and that if he tries twisting my nose I'm calling the police and having him arrested for assault.

"Full of shit" is not a phrase often directly associated with Zen masters. Points for originality. :)

http://nighttimethoughts.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/mountain20stream.jpg

Don't drink the water.

<I>even if you die the matter and energy in your body remains in the universe until it ends so you still exist

― The Cheerfull Turtle (Latham Green), Friday, June 29, 2012 4:37 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
</I>

Yeah well that ain't gonna catch me up on missed seasons of Adventure Time or Parks & Rec, so.

emil.y otm. the "matter and energy in your body remains in the universe" stuff is no antidote to the entirely rational fear of death.

To quote Ray Bradbury, "I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of not living." That's what we should all be afraid of.

kinda the other way around for me and most ppl i suspect. dying sounds horrible. not living is not something u experience at all.

emil.y otm. the "matter and energy in your body remains in the universe" stuff is no antidote to the entirely rational fear of death.

Yeah but nothing is! I mean, maybe for some people. But there's not any one thing you can say that will cause 100% of people to not be afraid of death. I don't think anyone said there was, anyways...

May as well get depressed that the sun is going down, or that your friend is in another geographic location than you, or something.

Or what if we all got sad right before we go to sleep, because we know we won't be awake and experiencing the world.

we get it.

adam bruneau aren't you like 23 or something

I'm not actually afraid of death. But not because of some hippy nonsense. Because I know I won't regret being dead when I'm dead, because it's quite simply impossible to do so.

The process of dying, on the other hand... Ouch.

only 23 year olds are made of stars iirc

yeah i like living, not really looking forward to dying, seems like that particular transition is going to be lame.

Adam Bruneau OTM.

Defining Life, Reality, Being, Consciousness by strictly logical and rational terms is completely inadequate and I think it's super naive and blinkered to LOL at anything that recognizes that and attempts to transcend it. Like, HAHA 23 Year Olds and Star Stuffs, but that's not a new or stupid concept. The New Age movement (or at least the popular perception of it) has kind of sullied the name of a lot of worthwhile Eastern philosophy/teaching. Unfortunate.

I have no problem with "we are all star stuff". It recognises our place as an infinitesimal part of a mind-boggling vast universe, made up of matter that has existed for a mind-boggling amount of time. I *do* have a problem with someone who infers from that that they have existed for all eternity and will continue to do so. No, you haven't. Maybe you should consider what personal identity means more.

yeah consciousness is a very specific process. consciousness is what creates an "i" from the billions of parallel processes happening in your brain. therefore when your brain ceases to function, there is no "i." saying that we are all made of stars and will last forever etc. may be a weird kind of consolation to some but what terrifies me is an end to the experience of living, which amounts to being an "i" in the world.

really wish i just never read any cognitive neuroscience and could sustain some kind of irrational believe in the survival of human personality after death. it would probably mean i'd spend less of my day staring into space in existential dread, and just get on with things.

but knowing that personality is fundamentally embodied kinds of puts a damper on that.

I don't fear death, but I do get sad that I won't get to see far future technologies.

it's weird that people fear the eventual destruction of earth/the universe when we all face our personal apocalypse before that. lars von trier made a somewhat clever movie about this IIRC.

i dont!

i dunno... like i said above, the fact that not-being is a state i will be unaware of, takes away its sting. i just won't be there. there'll be no fear, no pain, no nothin'.

having said that, something you wrote above will probably click for me in the middle of the night tonight and i'll wake up screaming haha

people, people, just believe in an afterlife

Im 31.

lol

Maybe you should consider what personal identity means more.

I will consider it and i do consider it. The ego, birth-to-death consciousness is important. It's just not personally as important as it's place in the wider scope of existence, which stretches beyond generations. Do you believe in God? Cos I do. There is some irrational, deeply felt connection that transcends my life and my experience. I can't explain it, it's just there. And it really makes life and death of an individual not such a big deal.

Gotta say I agree with circa1916, New Age Movement has kind of spoiled importation of plenty of valid Eastern concepts to the West. LOL @ hippies.

Do you believe in God? Cos I do.

Ah. Okay. Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I was a pretty committed atheist, rationalist, "the immediately tangible, quantifiable is all there is" type of person for years. There's been a slow but definite change recently. One: Don't laugh. I had a pretty intense experience with psychedelic mushrooms. Very profound if hard to articulate, obviously. Total shift in perception. I'd count it as a significant step in annihilating that fear of death that was always looming. There's a lot of study into the connection between psychedelics and overcoming the fear of death. Heard an ad on NPR asking for terminally ill folks interested in undergoing tests with psilocybin just a few weeks ago. Two: I've been meditating regularly and reading into a variety of Eastern teaching (totally a tourist in this area at the moment, so I'd be embarrassed to make suggestions). Also have been illuminated by some of Huxley's writing about the visionary experience, the Perennial Philosophy, etc.

Anyway, this is obviously not a path that will work for everyone, but I've never felt more "aware" and at peace in my life. I was totally a skeptic of anything even brushing against "mystical", but I've found significant, edifying worth in all of this.

Neither taking mushrooms nor meditating are irrational unless you decide to interpret them as such. Awe-inspiring phenomenology is a perfectly cool thing separate from belief in the mystical.

It's just not personally as important as it's place in the wider scope of existence,

no, your "identity" is a construction of your mind and ceases when your mind ceases to function.

Do you believe in God? Cos I do. There is some irrational, deeply felt connection that transcends my life and my experience. I can't explain it, it's just there. And it really makes life and death of an individual not such a big deal.

adam, THIS is the reason you're not afraid of death. congrats and all but your comforting talk about how death isn't any different from birth etc etc is coming from a totally different place from ppl who think that death means the permanent irreversible loss of everything you know and love.