The official thread for Lord Of The Rings - The Return Of The King [LOTR ROTK TROTK ROK] (NOW CONTAINS SPOILERS)

A smart friend of mine points out that because they don't resolve Saruman one way or the other, he is basically the only serious power left in Middle-Earth at the end of the film.

x-post Wormtongue is the black-haired wizard that was kinda "handling" Theodren pre-Gandalf-freeing-his-mind.

ROSIE COTTON = GEORGE DAWES!

well Jackson would deny that vehemently - and is it right to just read sexuality into these things. can't two men (or in this case hobbits, who are not men thus different) just say they love each other and be charmed by each other's astonishing displays of courage, honour, loyalty, trust and generosity without it being read as some hobbo-erotic thang?

Still great, of course, still thinking about it, already waiting a bit impatiently to seeing it with my family on the 25th. Watching all three movies in a row was instructive because it actually showed to me how each movie was different for all that it was telling a part of a larger story. In part this was because of the need to be able to give each section a proper general sense of a smaller story and ending, I think, but there were other differences and choices as well -- a lot of it comes down to Howard Shore's music, I think. It may seem strange, but he found some extremely sharp themes and worked them very, very well, to astonishing effect.

My bets for the extended edition, besides the known Saruman, Mouth of Sauron and Houses of Healing sequences, include the Gandalf/Witchking confrontation (shown in the preview), quite possibly Denethor's palantir, an extended section showing the time spent for Frodo/Sam to get to Mount Doom across Mordor matching Aragorn's march to the Black Gate as taking some days for both of them.

Some of the technical points still leave me so amazed...I'm thinking in particular of the part where you can see Faramir and his men about to start their doomed attack on Osgiliath. Behind the line of horsemen in the distance, you can see Minas Tirith looming up, shimmering in the heat of the day. It's a subtle but crucial touch. Then there's the sudden second of silence before Minas Morgul sends out the streaming signal of pale light, or how the flames in Mt. Doom suddenly pulls away to reveal Frodo standing over the abyss.

Having seen all the films now, I think about how in my head I always shoot a movie of LOTR every time I read it, much like I do with any fictional narrative I read. I think of angles, lighting, sometimes even music. Peter Jackson and crew made something with visions I never thought of and approaches I couldn't have conceived because I was always filming an unedited version in head -- it was worth every edit, reduction or simplification, every one.

Favourite moments include: the beacons being lit (but I didn't wholly understand that) / Gandalf knocking down Denethor and organizing the defence of Minas Tirith / the Rohirrim forming their lines and readying to attack the orcs, and indeed doing so / the subsequent scene with dismaying elephants attacking the heroic Rohirrim / the fightback vs the elephants / Aragorn and co getting off their boat, esp. the surprise factor cos we were meant to think they were pirates; includes Legolas on the elephant and his encounter with Gimli when he gets down / Eowyn fighting the ringwraith.

(I saw the first two films for the first time on Saturday.. does this make me uncool?)

Wasn't it just to summon assistance from the other armies?

I was pleased that we didn't get many elves especially because MAKING THEM GO TO ROHAN MADE NO SENSE and if they came to GONDOR as well that would just be silly but it's also silly they don't arhgrhrhrh WHY DID YOU DO IT JACKSON WHY WHY WHYY?

Except for Denethor. Have seen twice now and he's just WRONGWRONGWRONG, just this complete ass, and the alteration adds nothing. Even the effective-nevertheless doomed sortie/Pippin sings scene gets ruined; the steward and lord of Gondor, "in whom the blood of Westernesse runs nearly true," who "looked more a mighty wizard" than Gandalf, who retook Osgiliath in the first place WOULD NOT DROOL GOO ALL OVER HIS CHIN!!! He WOULD NOT GET SLAPPED AROUND, EVEN BY GANDALF!!!

And his coat is gay. And his running 200 yards while on fire is fucking supergay too. (I don't see how they're going to incorporate the palantir into the pyre scene later, either.) I don't think it's an accident that this, the grossest case of rewriting in Jackson's trilogy, is also the most problematic (I think it beats the Elf problem--am I forgetting anything else?).

My favorite latent contradiction born of cut-to-the-chase reduction so far:

Gandalf: Frodo has passed beyond my sight.
Somebody Else: Oh yeah?
Gandalf: That's right. And there are 10,000 orcs between him and Mount Doom.
Somebody Else: But I thought you said he'd passed beyond--

then again, the slow stuff was even slower

Which is why the second Shelob fight was SO EFFECTIVE when it sinks in that (even consciously knowing it from the books) that there is no one to swoop in behind Sam and save him, that the quest hinges on him defeating this giant fucking spider.

Elves? Elves are RUB!

(* especially if its a male elf wearing the gown.)

I'm going to hide behind the sofa before typing this next bit, because you're going to throw stuff at me, but I thought the beacons were a bit rubbish. It looked like they'd sat the work experience kid down at a computer and said "here, click on this, then on this mountain top and see how it makes a fire? Now do that on every other mountain top. It should only take you half an hour, then you can do this pile of photocopying". Or something. Maybe, having read all your spoilers before seeing the film, my expectations were too high.

Shelob was very scary, even more so because I knew what was coming. I gave Ally a dead arm from squeezing. And the bit that brought me closest to tears (nb. I don't cry easily) was "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry YOU". Lovely Sam. But when he got back to the Shire and was living with Rosie, I thought his garden was a bit of a mess and a disgrace to hobbitkind, especially considering its special fertilizer.

it's a thankless part,
all that suffering, gazing,
heroic sadness

but I don't buy him
in this one, his long soul-takes
showed no soul AT ALL