gender fuck or gender fucked (the politics of trans)

for example, SAT math scores are 100% useless for determining how well a person will do in math classes in college. there is absolutely no correlation, and there never has been, even though it would be very much in the interest of the college board to demonstrate this

to demonstrate a correlation, i mean

I feel like sissymanwhore needs to weigh in on this sexuality discussion

xp to the late great: yeah sure, i agree. i was using "aptitude" simply as a synonym for measurable ability (having nothing to do with any underlying "general aptitude" or the prediction of future performance)

but i guess that's pretty far removed from what people generally mean when they speak of "aptitude testing"

Well, that's not actually what "aptitude" means, so there's that.

sorry for killing thread w pedantry

for the best tbh

xxp - sure it is. that's the basic definition: "capability; ability; innate or acquired capacity"

^ "aptitude" =

ftr

i mean shit, i can ped with the best of ants

let it go

you should look @ the wikipedia entry to see the common usage though

yeah i no

thing this all seems to illustrate more than anything else is how durable the cisgender construct's sense of its own normalcy is. mainstream culture constantly reassures us that apparent biological gender = a predictable experience of binary gender = sexual orientation, and that any variation from this scheme is, at best, a "colorful" deviation.

well, that's exactly what it is, though - a social norm

sophisticated cissery

nice

I wish I could be a woman just for a little while, but me thinking that is pretty much the ultimate expression of male privilege

I'm sure Lorax has had the same thought, at least the first part

i don't suppose there's anything wrong with that sort of curiosity, no matter where you fit in the gender @ orientation continuum

The thing about humans is that their reality can pretty much always evade any categories you might want to impose upon them, including (see Macbeth) "of woman born".

always thought it was silly that c-section = not woman born

in terms of dramatic prophetic twists, i much prefer LOTR's "no man can kill me" "i am no man" bit

gonna take a wild guess here that everybody itt who was unhappy with my response is thoroughly hetero as well as male.

I'm with elmo, that shit hit me personally and it hurt. A nuanced response can be difficult when somebody's busy spitting on your life and ignoring every well-meaning attempt at dialogue. And yes, it was Lorax. I should have known better.

Mordy if we ever meet irl I will happily buy you a beer and smoke you out. You are obviously a good parent and teacher, we have some serious political/philosophical disagreements that get magnified in writing but I can live with that if you can.

This is a great example of why I try my best to stay away from ILE these days. I have no tolerance left for things that offend me, and it shows.

fair enough and very kind of u to say

sorry sleeve.

Sleeve, I don't think you should have to apologise for anything.

I mean, that freedom to *not* have an emotional to this shit, that, that thing there, that is Privilege.

IMHO people should never have to apologise for not having Privilege.

I mean, that freedom to *not* have an emotional to this shit, that, that thing there, that is Privilege.

this is exactly right

WCC, I tried sending you an ILXmail but I don't think it worked.

for some reason I can't see Lorax without trolling him with hypotheticals, sorry y'all

i guess it's possible that someone who is genderfluid wrt identity and bisexual wrt orientation might have different gender experiences depending upon the gender of the person or people with whom they're interacting romantically (or even socially} at any particular time? in this case gender identity would be a dependent variable but it wouldn't necessarily be oppositional or hetero oriented, i.e. you could be a sexual zelig and seek out one particular gender or the other in order to become more like that which you desire.

this is just a particular case tho and i don't know if instances of this even exist but i assume genderfluidity involves factors other than sexuality anyway if it even involves that at all.

nb i don't think this is what lorax was referring to. he was positing a situation in which a gender neutral or bigender person necessarily must experience a gender shift in relation to the gender of the person they're sexually or romantically attracted to. like there's always some kind of anima/ animus projection always in play wrt sexual desire, so if one prefers the feminine that's a result of anima projection and therefore one's gender must be more male since the anima and animus are contrasexual.

there's this notion that romantic attachments are a way of seeking out the other in a "you complete me" kind of way which is where i think he's getting this but you can't extrapolate from popular literary conceits. it's not some immutable law of sexual attraction if you want hard scientific data points to back this up go compile craigslist ads.

WCC referenced the "CaptainLorax debacle" on another thread, so I decided I'd look into it. What a depressing read, though I found crut to be pretty OTM throughout. Also weird how everyone assumes that the Captain is this ultra-hegemonic straight dude -- I assumed that his half-baked musings on gender had at least something to do with his documented attraction to androgynous women.

noted, I did not have that in my .xls

sexual attraction to a v specific type doesn't make someone less likely to be shitty just more likely to be creepy abt it

'i can't be ____ist i watch ________ porn all the time'

if there's any opportunity to give Lorax the benefit of the doubt, I try... until he stomps on it

i'm not a furry i just like drawing animal dicks

I didn't say that he wasn't being creepy or offensive, but I didn't read his posts as being aggressively assertive of straight male privilege. I think he was genuinely trying to ~figure stuff out~, he just did it in kind of a boneheaded way.

jesus zachlyon.

Wait, what? I thought what he said was reasonable...?

i kinda miss these anthony threads.

Cosign with Laurel.

Fetishes on that kinda level are too often an extension of privilege rather than a negation thereof.

what debacle, what happened

Wait, what? I thought what he said was reasonable...?

thank god for defenders of the innocent against the likes of cpt lorax + frogbs

nm i just looked upthread

Fetishes on that kinda level are too often an extension of privilege rather than a negation thereof.

I think it's v. fair to suggest that privilege is a factor in how he framed his thoughts, but I also think it's probable that he's coming at the subject from a more-personal perspective than what seemed to be acknowledged.

i'm never gonna make the finals if i keep posting like this

Mordy, do you think their arguably um misguided opinions are harmless because they're not rhetorical heavy-weights? Or...?