2008 Primaries Thread 3: The Rejecting and Denouncening

the "perception" is that he has so much foreign policy experience "in the bank."

well see how actually crazy vulnerable on this he is once obama really starts going after him - this foreign policy retardation is not an isolated incident. not that itll really matter since it pales in comparison to his ignorance on what will be the real issue of the g.e. - the economy.

guys, Hillary at Tuzla airport is like the perfect political mirror of McCain at the Baghdad marketplace

the media really needs to start covering this race like its a 5% chance instead of a 50/50 TOO CLOSE TO CALL one.

That Politico article linked somewhere upthread explains why they won't.

guys, Hillary at Tuzla airport is like the perfect political mirror of McCain at the Baghdad marketplace

Would make a good Obama political commercial (and 2-attacks in 1 ad, to boot).

eh the its pretty much over for hillary message does seem to be gaining traction how ever slowly and belatedly

If the media starts covering this like a 5% race, will this thread sink into oblivion?

obama's released all his tax returns from '00 to '06

the 'primaries' thread probably will alfred, yes

and a beautiful general election thread will rise from its ashes xp

8000 posts within the first day.

really odd to watch that Clinton interview. a terribly effective politician, but yes, I agree - it seems wrong for him to be so aggressive to that nice, mild lassie interviewing him.

A terrible, effective politician, yes.

I'm waiting for Daniel to point out McCain will win the General ;-).

McCain will win t. . . oh, you know the rest.

Hillary spokesperson Phil Singer blasted out an email at 11:23 insisting that Obama release his tax returns for back years.

Exactly two minutes later, at 11:25, Obama spokesperson Tommy Vietor emailed out word that Obama had posted his tax returns for 2000-2006 on his campaign web site. Turns out the Obama camp has been planning this for some time.

LOL counterattack

Until these internet tubes are truly lit with gunpowder, I never want to hear the word "blast" in connotation with e-mail again.

NY Times wondering if "a liberal" like Obama can build a winning coalition, citing the assbackwards National Journal ranking! is this gabbneb's work?

Meanwhile, 4 all-star lefties have a different view:

...the fact that Barack Obama openly defines himself as a centrist invites the formation of this progressive force within his coalition. Anything less could allow his eventual drift towards the right as the general election approaches. It was the industrial strikes and radical organizers in the 1930s who pushed Roosevelt to support the New Deal. It was the civil rights and student movements that brought about voting rights legislation under Lyndon Johnson and propelled Eugene McCarthy and Bobby Kennedy's antiwar campaigns. It was the original Earth Day that led Richard Nixon to sign environmental laws. And it will be the Obama movement that will make it necessary and possible to end the war in Iraq, renew our economy with a populist emphasis, and confront the challenge of global warming.

...Progressives should support Obama's sixteen-month combat troop withdrawal plan in comparison to Clinton's open-ended one, and demand that both candidates avoid a slide into four more years of low-visibility counterinsurgency.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080407/hayden_et_al

hey morbs i dunno if you're still mad at obama for accepting money from WALL STREET FAT CATS but i just got an EMAIL BLAST!!!! from him saying that 94% of his donations have been from individuals sending under $200

search that "damned lies" aphorism about statistics, and it still doesn't make The Saint a liberal.

From the progressives, BWAHAHA, again:

We believe that the Hillary Clinton of 1968 would be an Obama volunteer today, just as she once marched in the snows of New Hampshire for Eugene McCarthy against the Democratic establishment.

search that "damned lies" aphorism about statistics, and it still doesn't make The Saint a liberal.

-- Dr Morbius, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:37 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

what would he have to do to satisfy you. give specifics plz

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/032508DailyUpdateGraph1.gif

deej:

advocate single-payer health insurance, or failing that, put the mandates in his current plan.

recant his goal of adding to add 100,000 combat troops to the military.

say his votes for the anti-class-action suit bill and against capping credit-card rates were mistakes.

stop the chickenshit AIPAC-style backtracking on the Palestinian issue.

Morbius, why do you put so much stake in presidential candidates coming off as sufficiently left? No real leftist I know puts much stake in the elections, especially the presidential one.

please, morbius is out on the streets grassroots organizing every day

it's the kind of can-do attitude that makes the left the power in the world that it is today.

xpost

I was just telling deej what would qualify Obama as a liberal, in my view (considering that we haven't had one as prez in 40 years). I still suspect I'll cast my meaningless NY vote for Obama unless he does something really stupid like pick Sam Nunn for VP.

Clinton: Wright “Would Not Have Been My Pastor”

In interview with Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reporter and editors Tuesday, Clinton says she would have left her church if her pastor made those kind of inflammatory remarks.

“You don’t choose your family, but you choose what church you want to attend.”

isnt she in that creepy pro-life fundie group in dc

deej and nrq, which US political parties supported integration in the '20s? The Commies and Socialists, right? Whatever their other failings, would you have similarly sneered at them for their "irrelevance" on that issue then?

The commies and socialists deserve credit for the new deal too.

isnt she in that creepy pro-life fundie group in dc

http://www.therevealer.org/TheFamily.jpg

Holy shit this is disturbing

you just linked to a college humor video

what song is on the sdtrk it's pretty catchy

i fucking hate the "she's ugly"/misogynist attacks on HRC though.

Sullivan rips into his pal Hitch's Slate screed:

Now Hitch, of course, believes that all religious faith is contemptible and a fraud. I don't. And I think Hitch's healthy skepticism toward all forms of uplift, political and religious, has a very important place in our culture and in Western freedom. I would not expect Hitch to feel anything but visceral revulsion to an Obama sermon. And I don't like some of the messianic tinges to the Obama movement much either. But I think Obama's foreign policy proposals in the wake of the Iraq debacle, the resort to reason in his dialogue, and his recourse to to civility and to complexity in an age of ugliness and soundbites more than counter-balance this redemptive temptation.

Of course, I cannot see totally into a man's soul, Obama's or anyone else's, and I cannot know for sure that he is pure of motive. That he has confessed that he has not always been pure of motive is for me a good sign, not a bad omen. Perhaps Hitch is right that all of this is some gigantic fraud in which the most sincere matters of faith and family are being cynically used for pure politics. We can only look at a man's words and actions and self-explanation, and do our best to make a judgment.

deej I would be interested to hear whether you think Morbius's response to your "what would Obama have to do to qualify as liberal" response is just bullshit, or has some validity to it thx.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/images/2007/10/16/tcs2.jpg

Apparently it's OK for HRC to 'mis-speak' on Bosnia sniper fire and her because 'milllions of words come out of her each day'. BWAHAHAHA.

-- suzy, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 3:44 PM

loooooooool

I think Hitch's healthy skepticism toward all forms of uplift, political and religious, has a very important place in our culture and in Western freedom.

lol, it's called England

Morbs is otm about obama's failing but waiting for a dem who is fdr lefty rather than a liberal is somewhat foolhardy unless you go with the tombot analysis and assume the next prez is hoover and that preciptates a new fdr.

I'd add to morbz list a point about the danger of obama (or clinton) persuing a protectionist trade agenda. Sure free trade has hurt jobs in the devloped world but some of the blame lies at the feet of organised labour for not standing up for the rights and wages of the brothers and sisters in emerging economies, in effect globalising itself to deal with the globalisation of capital.

yah sure try and unionize china see what happens

TOm I feel you that the next president's going to have a lot on his (or her) hands, possibly more than we can even comprehend at this point in 2008. I know what you mean about the Democrats being set up, LBJ style, to pull out of Iraq leaving an inevitably messy situation, so that for the next 40 years we get to hear about how Democrats are defeatists, how they left before the job was done, they don't have the stomach for a fight etc etc et fucking cetera. And that could well happen.

But think about 1860 for a moment. The same logic would obtain. Why throw a once-in-a-lifetime politician like Lincoln into that fire? But thank fvck we did. We might need Obama, or Clinton, more than we think.

yah sure try and unionize china see what happens

you know, I have nothing better to do today, really, I think I'll do this and report back to you

sweet!

deej and nrq, which US political parties supported integration in the '20s? The Commies and Socialists, right? Whatever their other failings, would you have similarly sneered at them for their "irrelevance" on that issue then?

-- Dr Morbius, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:18 PM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

The commies and socialists deserve credit for the new deal too.

-- Gavin, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:24 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

actually i think the communist and socialist parties opposed the new deal, but in both cases these were powerful forces in the unions. i don't think they were irrelevant or wanted to be.

jhøshea otm re chinese unions.

American union leaders cut a deal in the 1930s that we're still living with the consequences of today -- to forget everything except a bigger slice of pie for their own membership. And now that is biting them in the ass.

also: Taft-Hartley.

good luck j0hn!