The Kennedy Assasination

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i just read TWO biographies of arthur lowe: haha one of them totally rips off the other one anecdote and quote-wise and THEN CRITICISES ITS ACCURACY!!

truly it is said "chutzpah thy name is gordon"

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 November 2003 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe Pike shot JFK? cos, you know, he is stupid an' that?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 November 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)

truly committed research there mark! i doubt raymond durgnat went to such lengths. mind you wollen's 'singin in the rain' contrives to have a whole section on the russian ballet, as i recall.

― enrique (Enrique), Monday, 24 November 2003 10:53 (twenty-two years ago)

john le mesurier: "so who was the best hamlet you ever saw?"
john laurie: "why me, laddie!"

arnold ridley (private godfrey) played football, cricket AND rugby for england b4 WW1, and wrote more than 60 plays, several of which he starred in

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 November 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

but was he on the grassy knoll?

anyway, didn't john peel shoot jfk?

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 24 November 2003 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

arnold ridley (private godfrey) played football, cricket AND rugby for england b4 WW1

jesus -- how old was he?
but will you read the plays?

― enrique (Enrique), Monday, 24 November 2003 11:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Born in 1896, died in 1984. He managed to outlive both Arthur Lowe and John Le Mesurier!

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 24 November 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Ridley's most famous play = 'The Ghost Train', which I think is STILL being performed by am dram socs. The film version, starring Arthur Askey, used to get shown on Brit TV ALL THE TIME.

The Kennedy doc was pretty much a rehash of Posner's 'Case Closed' bk: I didn't think the prog explained v. clearly the stuff abt the motorcycle cop's open microphone.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 24 November 2003 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

it didn't but i found the whole notion of those cowboy scientists (wow, great visual concept there) and their being able to identify FOUR gun shot sounds from just a big mess of radio static highly dubious anyway. the bike cop McCain was not in the necessary area regardless it seemed.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 November 2003 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Did the programme address the stuff about the actual rifle Oswald have being a bit rubbish? ie, it was very very difficult indeed to get three shots off as it was a bolt action one? I always found this an interesting aspect of the conspiracy theories.

As for Oswald's personality - all the evidence which said he wanted to do and could have done it don't invalidate that he still could have been a patsy being played like a piano; if i was choosing a ptasy, I'd have chosen a guy like Oswald as he would be very believable, as he himself would have believed he'd have done it. He just wouldn't have been aware of the fact that there were others helping him. Anyway. I hope it wasn't just Oswald on his own. V boring if the case.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 24 November 2003 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

It showed someone firing 3 shots in the specified time.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 24 November 2003 11:26 (twenty-two years ago)

the dispute was more that there had been a fourth shot from someone else rather than the first three not coming from the same man/gun though wasn't it? the figuring was that an ex-Marine would be able to fire three accurate shots from a rifle of that kind within 7 seconds.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 November 2003 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Wasn;t the fourth shot only detected on the mic recording, which was questionable? (of course I may be completely wrong.)

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 24 November 2003 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

they showed an old geezer getting the shots off easily in the time required, while grinning

they didn't include the usual demolition of the tape-belt which appears to feature four shots, which is that it also includes a spoken message bleed-thru from another channel which shows that it was on and recording at another time entirely - ie those fuzzy static crackles aren't gunshots at all

they did show that the policeman whose belt it was supposed to be wasn't in the place he had to be for the shots to be the shots

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 November 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I believe the recording where the fourth bullet was heard was later found out to be a throbbing gristle demo.

Did Peter Jennings narrate UK version? The US version aired last thursday.

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 24 November 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

it wasn't Peter Jennings but I can't remember who - Chris something i think?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 November 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Gavin Esler

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

But I'm sure his friends call him 'Chris'

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

ian penman has just filed a magnificent few hundred words on this.

www.apawboy.blogspot.com

― enrique (Enrique), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Penman is magnificent when he gets angry.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 24 November 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i'll have to wait til i get home to read it properly - on my work system it manifests in weeny little letters and i got tired of screwing up my lids - but penman WHAT'S THIS! ONE LONELY GUY'S COMPUTER SIMULATION VERSUS 40 YEARS OF PAINSTAKING IN-PRINT ARGUMENT won't fly: trying to describe the likelihood or otherwise of a ballistics argument in WORDS is way harder and more likely to be rubbishy handwaving than a good* diagram! The programme's (and Posner's) rationale = the Warren commission's forensic science was NOT on the face of it laughable

(the question of whether it's good or not wasn't addressed, it's true and that was a weakness - but the argument that books are IN PRINCIPLE a better vector for this information and its analysis and critique than 3D diagrams seems to me simply false) < / maths rockist >

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

If you click on View and select Text Size you should be able to magnify IP's words.

He just reads magnificently when he's angry, which admittedly is separate and distinct from the question of whether it's worth him getting so angry over this particular topic. Almost as good value as Mr Watson getting angry over the sleevenotes to the Sing Me A Song Of Songmy reissue as per current Wire.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 24 November 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah... it is worth getting worked up about the continued obfuscation of the assassination of kennedy, though, i'd've thunk, and well, it's only day 3 of nu-pillbox. i'm totally psyched, anyway, the man is a legend round my gaff.

ballistics argument in WORDS

=a chapter of finnegans wake

― enrique (Enrique), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

or the last ten minutes of dirty harry.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 24 November 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

the conspiracy theories ARE the obfuscation!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

sure, i don't think penman was saying that... well, actually, what's a conspiracy? if LHO wasn't acting alone than that's already a conspiracy; it's just that here 'conspiracy' tends to mean aliens, teamsters, cubans etc. the obfuscation in the show was, as penman says, its portrayal of assertion as proof.

― enrique (Enrique), Monday, 24 November 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

personally, i blame hstencil.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 24 November 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

penn & teller's "how to play with your food" has a bit on shooting melons w a bolt-action rifle; they fall toward the shot invariably. especially when a second melon in a pill-box hat is set up next to the one you are shooting.

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 24 November 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The Zapruder film is available on DVD. They have a section where they slow it down and blow it up, showing it frame by frame, and it becomes clearer that he was shot from the back.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 24 November 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

An ideal Christmas gift for your loved ones!

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 24 November 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

amy taubin calls zapruder the founding moment of US underground film-making

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 November 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Zapruder vs. Herschell Gordon Lewis FITE

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 November 2003 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

An influence on Jackass, perhaps?

― Pete S, Monday, 24 November 2003 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

my theory: invisibly below the side of the car jfk was dressed in no trousers (US: pants) and a box (US: cup), and the man on the grassy knoll assassinated him by throwing a cricket ball (US: baseball) at hiz nuts (US: ass)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 November 2003 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

and thus the second assassin is proved to be arnold ridley (US: james finlayson).

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 24 November 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I only found out last week that the kennedy administration was called Camelot not because of its likeness to King Arthurs round-table regality, but because it lasted as long as the Broadway run of said show. What a come down.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 24 November 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, and the Thatcher govt was known as 'No Sex Please We're British'

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I found this very perceptive essay about much of the "research" that has been done into the JFK assassination over the years. I highly reccomend reading it: mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shannon.htm

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 24 November 2003 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

new theory: Don Zimmer came to the realization that Pedro Martinez had killed Kennedy, a realization that occurred in the middle of a recent playoff game. He attempted to subdue the culprit but Pedro threw him to the ground, and Zim hit his head. Now when he says "I really don't know what came over me" he's telling the truth, because HE HAS FORGOTTEN EVERYTHING. Will Pedro get away with it?? Watch this space...

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/images/redSox/zim10132003.jpg

― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 24 November 2003 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

i think ruk the android did it ... he's such a hardcore motherfucker, that not even phasers can kill him. WHAT'S A PUNY HUMAN LIKE JFK TO A BAD-ASS LIKE RUK?!?

http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200306/tos-010-korbys-assistant-ruk/320x240.jpg

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 24 November 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

interesting piece about implications of zapruder here:

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/film/features/story.jsp?story=466803

cf 'blow up', 'the conversation'

― enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

eleven months pass...

Happy Assassination Day!

Here's a great holiday gift for that friend or family member who has (seen) everything.

― k3rry (dymaxia), Monday, 22 November 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, it's on another thread. Sorry.

― k3rry (dymaxia), Monday, 22 November 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

six years pass...

47th anniversary. Showed my grade 6s the Zapruder film off YouTube (30+ seconds, very graphic--I feel justified in showing it, though), and the original footage of Ruby shooting Oswald. One of my girls had done a short report on the assassination which I marked over the weekend. Pretty well done, but it was interesting to learn that Oswald was shot in a nightclub.

― clemenza, Monday, 22 November 2010 20:27 (fifteen years ago)

It's certainly a new angle.

― http://tinyurl.com/vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 22 November 2010 20:29 (fifteen years ago)

It just occurred to me that today is the 47th anniversary, and JFK was only 46.

― http://tinyurl.com/vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 22 November 2010 20:30 (fifteen years ago)

I've burned out on assassination books, but I would like to read former Secret Service agent Clint Hill's book (Hill is the agent that Jackie helps get into the limo as seen in the Zapruder film)

― Stockhausen's Helicopter Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Monday, 22 November 2010 20:39 (fifteen years ago)

(FWIW, Hill doesn't believe there was a conspiracy)

― Stockhausen's Helicopter Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Monday, 22 November 2010 20:40 (fifteen years ago)

I.e. he was in on it!

― rappa ternt sagna (jim in glasgow), Monday, 22 November 2010 20:41 (fifteen years ago)

BACK......AND TO THE LEFT

― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 22 November 2010 20:45 (fifteen years ago)

Skipping 98 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

60th anniversary...Two choices at semi-local reps tonight: Rush to Judgement or the one where Joe Pesci wears a fright wig. The second is 20 minutes closer, so tempting, but I've never seen Rush to Judgement, so that wins.

― clemenza, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 17:00 (two years ago)

Has anyone seen the Stone documentary?

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 17:02 (two years ago)

This is a great read, a good update from last week

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/jfk-assassination-documents-national-archives.html

― I. J. Miggs (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 22:21 (two years ago)

i wonder will we ever get any closer to knowing what killed him

― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 23:46 (two years ago)

One or more bullets, I'd say.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 23:47 (two years ago)

one theory, poorly backed up

personally? hiccups

― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 23:47 (two years ago)

We nearly lost Bush the Lesser to a pretzel.

Better luck next time.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 23:48 (two years ago)

this woman knew Oswald when she was a child, and she believes the patsy theory

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/22/lee-harvey-oswald-museum-jfk-texas

― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 23:58 (two years ago)

ive heard two version each compelling in their own way:

hiccups after eating a pasty

hiccups after eating a patty

― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Thursday, 23 November 2023 00:20 (two years ago)

Oswald is entirely believable as a fall-guy. What's missing is conclusive evidence for another culprit. Plenty of hints and suspicions, but nothing you can hang your hat on.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 23 November 2023 00:23 (two years ago)

a lot of people think you cant get hiccups eating a pasty, it breaks into too unfine a crumb and sure you can choke but hiccup your skull apart? unlikely.

proponents of this narrative however offer the nutribullet theory

― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Thursday, 23 November 2023 00:27 (two years ago)

You’re close but that’s not it, it was neither a pasty nor a patty but a pastry

*hic* bin ein Berliner

― Boris Yitsbin (wins), Thursday, 23 November 2023 00:29 (two years ago)

we are close

maybe too close

― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Thursday, 23 November 2023 00:34 (two years ago)

well dmac you don't have a choice anymore. you're a significant threat to the national security structure. they'd have killed you already, but there's light on you. so they'll destroy your credibility. they already have in many circles.

― omar little, Thursday, 23 November 2023 01:57 (two years ago)

The de Antonio film was okay, but there was a monotonous, stilted style to all the interviewees that made them seem a lot less credible than they otherwise would have. A couple even came across as shifty-eyed. Best counter-evidence (which I knew already) was how close Ruby was to the Dallas police.

Spent 20 minutes on this with a grade 5/6 class today (complete with two old Life magazines I brought in, one of which they managed to rip while it was passed around...my own fault). They were quite engaged. I used show my own students the Zapruder film, the kind of thing I don't do anymore--too graphic. Today, though, they talked me into showing the Oswald-transfer clip, where you really just see a lot of commotion. When I went to play it, though, it was blocked by my board. Changing times.

― clemenza, Thursday, 23 November 2023 02:59 (two years ago)

Ruby's interview with Earl Warren was fascinating and bizarre.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 24 November 2023 18:30 (two years ago)

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