(I personally enjoy these three shows more than The Simpsons - especially after the 90s - but it seems like a reasonable point of comparison.)
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:03 (twelve years ago) link
Scrubs wasn't as intellectual imo but it did have the manic bizarro thing - no less than Happy Endings for sure - and it became a success. Maybe the whole long-game love story was the trick there?
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:05 (twelve years ago) link
as intellectual
as 30 Rock or Community. I don't really see Happy Endings as an especially intellectual comedy although I do like it.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:08 (twelve years ago) link
Don't forget that Scrubs used to run after a little show called Friends.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:08 (twelve years ago) link
Scrubs was pretty weird, like NBC kept trying to kill it, then changed its mind over and over again before dumping it to ABC. Zach Braff becoming popular for a minute probably helped it for a season or two, much like the whole Tina Fey/Palin moment. The ratings were never THAT great, though, just solid... good for NBC, though?
I think The Simpsons had really good timing, as it'd been a really long time since a prime-time cartoon had been big, and they broke out after the peak of that whole TGIF/super wholesome family sitcom era of TV, and started/rode the wave of generally more snarky 90s TV
― Nhex, Friday, 11 May 2012 05:09 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, Happy Endings is one of my favorites, but there's rarely any kind of second-layer to those jokes.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 11 May 2012 05:10 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah - Happy Endings is smart and quick, for sure, but its a show which has limited boundaries and sticks well within them.
― I serve at the pleasure of Dr. Dre and a team of Sorbonne scientists. (R Baez), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:11 (twelve years ago) link
simpsons was on a network that had had one 'hit' to that point (married w/ children) and was looking to establish a brand that simpsons played into, was like nothing that had ever been on tv before, and was incredibly well written and funny and vaguely dangerous initially. also: merchandising. in fact, ppl forget this, the merchandising predated the show somewhat (though, like dave matthews take on 'all along the watchtower', it took it to a whole nother level after the show premiered), the tracey ullman sketches had done well enough that i can remember talking to other kids on the school bus about looking forward to the simpsons getting their own show, and i can remember camelot records and tapes had a bart simpson 'underachiever and proud of it' poster i almost got before opting for a beasties one instead. what's weird w/ the simpsons is that the actual creative peak of the show is probably after it's mass phenom popularity peak - those first two seasons feel somewhat odd but THAT's the simpsons that inspired black bart t-shirts, george bush jeremiads, etc.
― balls, Friday, 11 May 2012 05:12 (twelve years ago) link
what's amazing to me is that a show like seinfeld could not only be a hit but be THE hit. faster than happy endings, more 'coastal' than 30 rock, weirder than community (arguably, definitely relative to what came before it), waaay meaner and 'unlikable' than any of these shows w/ only one attractive protagonist. one of the hugest smashes in tv history. what are the odds.
― balls, Friday, 11 May 2012 05:18 (twelve years ago) link
I'd probably quibble that Community at its weirdest is further out than Seinfeld's weirdest but yeah, Seinfeld had no heart at all. And even Julia Louis-Dreyfuss wasn't exactly Jennifer Aniston or Christina Applegate or anything. I put it down to a 90s zeitgeist.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:22 (twelve years ago) link
Here are some differences though: i) You can jump in and watch any episode of Seinfeld and understand it without needing the context of the rest of the series. This is not the case with at least this season of Community.ii) The humour in Seinfeld does not generally rely on layered cultural references. You don't need to know a bunch of other things to get the jokes on Seinfeld. I often think that e.g. as much as I love "Abed's Uncontrollable Christmas", no one will find much of it funny in 20 years when Bjork, Tim Burton, and Lost are no longer current (or recent).
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:27 (twelve years ago) link
My parents can get The Office but not 30 Rock or Community.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:29 (twelve years ago) link
in fact, ppl forget this, the merchandising predated the show somewhat
Absolutely true. Just recently came across my Simpsons trading cards...which featured stills from the Ullman shorts.
― You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:29 (twelve years ago) link
yeah community is weirder but i think in comparison to sunny, 30 rock, happy endings, himym it's not as far from the norm as seinfeld was in comparison to cheers, cosby, friends, raymond. i guess the main difference is community's weirdness frequently dominates the entire episode whereas w/ seinfeld it was usually just the kramer plot. still before troy and abed in the morning there was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SewgD0Vz0
― balls, Friday, 11 May 2012 05:30 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, as much as I love these serialized sitcoms, I don't know how NBC fails to realize that they also need some sitcoms that people can just dip in and out of. The investment necessary to really enjoy their current Thursday night crop is an awful lot to ask of the casual viewer.
― You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:32 (twelve years ago) link
They can get Monty Python and Woody Allen btw so it's not just a 'weirdness' issue.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:34 (twelve years ago) link
The humour in Seinfeld does not generally rely on layered cultural references
30 Rock's recent live show may be an extreme example of this.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 11 May 2012 05:41 (twelve years ago) link
the show i'm holding my breath for renewal on is happy endings, which i like at least as much as community (tbh more this season)
otm
― da croupier, Friday, 11 May 2012 11:44 (twelve years ago) link
You guys are reading into and basing A LOT on a few largely speculative articles. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these ended up being given longer than 13 eps, there's nothing suggesting they likely won't*, NBC is just being cowardly and faffing around as is apparently usual.
*Except maybe for 30 Rock, which is something of a special case.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Friday, 11 May 2012 11:56 (twelve years ago) link
yeah tbh i wouldn't be surprised if NBC's slate of new fall comedies fails so immediately that they start ordering more episodes from the older shows.
― some dude, Friday, 11 May 2012 12:55 (twelve years ago) link
iirc those Butterfinger commercials had a hand in blowing Bart up--since they were pure Bart-being-badass snippets
― President Keyes, Friday, 11 May 2012 14:02 (twelve years ago) link
I think the days of a sitcom like Seinfeld finally finding its audience three seasons in are over.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Friday, May 11, 2012 12:16 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This is the way major labels treat bands now too, sadly
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 May 2012 14:13 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, the days of a Laurie Anderson getting a seven-album deal with a Warner Bros. are pretty much over.
― You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 11 May 2012 14:24 (twelve years ago) link
From a business standpoint, it's often a sound decisions to order third and fourth and partial fifth seasons of a very middling, only moderately popular show /w cheap production costs (multicam, standing sets, low cost actors at launch) to get to the traditional 100 episode syndication watershed. Since a lot of shows run in the red until they're sold off/stripped/sent overseas, it's not that risky to expect that a long-running show w/ poor ratings to be given a final run of episodes that won't garner many viewers as 'new TV' but will position it for a longer cable or syndicated run.
― remy bean, Friday, 11 May 2012 14:25 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i don't know if america will ever get behind these shows in a major way, but shows that hit a niche are probably as likely to get a decent life somewhere on tv today (esp if the cougar town tbs shift works out) as they ever where.
― da croupier, Friday, 11 May 2012 14:27 (twelve years ago) link
i thought 30 Rock's overall ratings/cultural profile would raise after syndicated reruns started this past year, but if anything the opposite has happened.
― some dude, Friday, 11 May 2012 14:30 (twelve years ago) link
a thousand points to the first web journalist to find a kid raised on 30 rock reruns who had no idea NBC was a real network
― da croupier, Friday, 11 May 2012 14:35 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― some dude, Friday, 11 May 2012 14:36 (twelve years ago) link
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, May 11, 2012 12:27 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
OTM, at its base, seinfeld was about really primal human stuff - vanity, hate, boredom, pettiness, etc
tbh i sometimes see early 30 Rocks on syndication and some of the references are already starting to become incomprehensible
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 May 2012 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
For all I know, Bjork and Tim Burton will be taught in schools 20 years from now
― da croupier, Friday, 11 May 2012 17:41 (twelve years ago) link
like, yeah, there are alienating elements to these shows that make them less likely to achieve Wings-like ratings, but if these shows age like SCTV...I'm fine with that.
― da croupier, Friday, 11 May 2012 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
wings was p dope overall
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 May 2012 17:46 (twelve years ago) link
i didn't mean to suggest wings wasn't mad fresh
― da croupier, Friday, 11 May 2012 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
church
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 May 2012 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
i) You can jump in and watch any episode of Seinfeld and understand it without needing the context of the rest of the series. This is not the case with at least this season of Community.
I think Community is off-putting for new viewers, (Seinfeld probably was too--taking several episodes for viewers to figure out who you were supposed to be rooting for: no one) but it's not really any more of a serial comedy than most other sitcoms--certainly not like Parks and Rec with its season-long story arcs. What do you really need to know about the Community mythos to enjoy that Law & Order parody? These characters are wacky?
― President Keyes, Friday, 11 May 2012 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
ooh a law and order parody i bet that was funney
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
dear community,
your arms are too short to box with god.
http://www.emcblue.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/law-nd-order-svu.jpg
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:43 (twelve years ago) link
Parks renewed for 13 episodes and slated for the fall, so a back 9 isn't out of the question. Up All Night also renewed. Not so much with the overhaul, then.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:08 (twelve years ago) link
ughhhhh fuckin Up All Night
― some dude, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:12 (twelve years ago) link
ParkandRec has been renewed for 22 episodes, not 13!
Whitney also renewed.
― polyphonic, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:21 (twelve years ago) link
haha jesus christ
― some dude, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:22 (twelve years ago) link
Outsourced aside, pretty much all the new comedies NBC has canceled in the past 2 years are far more tolerable than the ones that have been renewed
― some dude, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:23 (twelve years ago) link
HAPPY ENDINGS will be back for a full season of 22 episodes.
― polyphonic, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:25 (twelve years ago) link
^^^Important news not to be slept on^^^^
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
Yay for P&R, Up All Night and Happy Endings!
Hope that The Office really does go away, but it probably won't.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:43 (twelve years ago) link
Parks renewed for 13 episodes and slated for the fall
Good news for Schur's proposed arc to have Ben working in D.C. through the first week of November.
― Carrie Antwoord (jaymc), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
glad for 'up all night' even though i've never watched it tbqf, a friend of mine is on that show.
― omar little, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:58 (twelve years ago) link
more interested in watching 'parks and rec' or 'community' at some point.
― omar little, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
are you friends with the baby
― max, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
is the baby ur friend on up all night