rolling "Is This Racist?" thread

God I hate the Anglo use of 'bougie'...

I guess that makes me insufferably bourgeois

just c/p the whole thing here:

Ezra Koenig is not incorrect about this. I might even replace “infrequently mentioned” with “infrequently even noticed.” For me, this was a constant surprise in reactions to Vampire Weekend’s debut: how often and how casually the band was described—or derided—as being white, or consisting of WASPs. Given how much it bothered me as a third party, I can only imagine how irritating it’d be to have white people criticize you for being “white” when you’re Persian; to have Protestants write you off as a WASP when you’re Jewish; maybe even to have people call you a WASP when your name is Baio.

This isn’t just pedantry about the meanings of words, though. Most of what people are trying to shorthand when they call indie acts “white” is set of ideas about social manner and social class: what they’re doing is fundamentally just a modern-American youth-culture spin on calling people bourgeois. (Obviously the last thing you’ll risk when calling out an indie band for being bourgeois is actually using an upscale word like “bourgeois.”) As always, much of it is a game of small differences: middle-class youth reprimanding one another for being whatever they’re most embarrassed to be. Koenig and Batmanglij can be those things, too—of course they can.

I don’t even object to the inevitable use of shorthand for those things. (The English have an interesting term: “student types.”) What surprises me, though, is how many white speakers—including people who are relatively savvy about race and culture—seem completely unbothered by the very obvious problems involved in using a racial shorthand for them. Some will quite casually use “white” as code for a certain set of qualities—safety, cleverness, politeness, education, middle-class manner, “literary” pretensions, alleged blandness—without, so far as I can tell, much noticing the shadow of opposites that casts on everyone else. (Danger? Vulgarity? Ignorance? Poverty? Savagery?) Some will argue, in earnest, that they’re actually taking the side of some vibrant other thing over bland, upscale whiteness—all without noticing how very old and familiar that line is. (Haven’t white audiences traditionally admired black artists as a source of transgression, of danger, of dirt, of “authenticity,” of “soul,” of “primitive” thrills?)

But even more than those obvious issues, I’m surprised by how this mode of thinking can lead people to actually misapprehend what’s right in front of their eyes—straight down to the ability to look at four guys in a band, one of them a Persian guy with the surname Batmanglij, and say, without missing a beat, that you’re looking at four white guys. The ability to look at a crowd at an indie show and claim that everyone’s white, even when you’re surrounded by two dozen east Asians. The ability to use “white” to mean “middle-class” to such an overwhelming extent that you actually start to misidentify people—all so that race itself, not class or background or culture or manner, can still remain the difference, the Other. There’s an odd habit here.

i think pointing out 'white ppl problems' or 'white ppl show' or whatever, other issues aside, does challenge the ongoing notion that white culture is normative culture.

(the missing quote is an oblique reference to how ppl constantly call Vampire Weekend, a band whose primary songwriters are Jewish and Persian, a WASP band)

what if someone says that a basketball team sucks because they have too many white players

oh sorry didnt realize i cut off the quote

what if someone says that a basketball team sucks because they have too many white players

― That's a pretty funky dance, Garfield. Show me how you do it. (frogbs), Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:41 PM (51 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what if

frogbs raises a great point

I mean, what if

xp: damn u

*strokes chin*

completely the opposite of what we're talking about, frog

but coincidentally the nets DO suck because they have too many decemberists fans on the roster

of all the teams in the NBA, the nets are the team with too many white players?

that it is, but there's an example of using "white" as a perjorative that's at least a little more acceptable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY
any excuse to post louis

WHEEEEE

maybe Whiney actually wasn't using an INDIE=WHITE=BAD shorthand for once and just happens to know that DeShawn Stevenson is really into The Crane Wife

guys, i'm gonna be honest with you, i just named the first basketball team that came to my head.

yeah I have trouble believing that Whiney could name one current white basketball player

how the heck does some dude know who deshawn stevenson is??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5kzqNmXQQk

have we had the "White Mamba" discussion on this thread yet, because it would be appropriate

google, dude (xpost)

i mean...i had to google the name of a decemberists album too, fwiw

that it is, but there's an example of using "white" as a perjorative that's at least a little more acceptable

― That's a pretty funky dance, Garfield. Show me how you do it. (frogbs), Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:46 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what on earth

haha i was impressed for a minute there

oh, hey, scalabrine's a ginger. respect!

yeah I have trouble believing that Whiney could name one current white basketball player

― That's a pretty funky dance, Garfield. Show me how you do it. (frogbs), Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:51 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I def cannot. I know the big guy with the shaggy hair from all the gifs

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll423kfkmS1qb99z5o1_500.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/EmilyMarieMaki.jpg

I thought Whiney was just interested in the nets cuz they're jay-z's team

i'm actually thinking about becoming a basketball fan to root for the Nets

yeah I have trouble believing that Whiney could name one current white basketball player

― That's a pretty funky dance, Garfield. Show me how you do it. (frogbs), Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:51 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I def cannot. I know the big guy with the shaggy hair from all the gifs

― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:57 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait i don't even know who this is

i'm actually thinking about becoming a hip-hop fan to listen to jay-z!

like when the brooklyn nets win, it's a 1/3 victory for hip-hop

also a 2/3 victory for russia

a total victory for russian hip-hop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WB2ayaX_BU&feature=related

http://www.scripophily.com/webcart/vigs/nationalbiscuitvig1.jpg
otm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIf7_ZDGSHQ

yee, come on, that's right, check

when did fig newtons stop being so chesty?

that's right, come on, yee

chest newtons losing market share to a competitor's fig-based newton product forced a shift in the national biscuit company's game plan

^ business

the best is i'll be talking about being persian and my friends will be like "oh come on, you're white". and i'm like, WTF man, i'm not white. look at me! and then they're like, no, you're white, you're from the wealthy coastal suburbs and you wear j crew and you have no accent. you're white!

so white people get to decide when i'm white, ie when it suits them for me to be white.

To be fair, if your really Persian (and not one of the ethnic minorities of Iran, then you're definitely Aryan. The Shah was always fond of pointing that out.

you're

rap songs with white people singing

ha, never really thought about it, but this is another great example of the marginalization of R&B. Scabs like Skylar Grey and Matthew Santos are stealing all the prime guest spots

― Evan R, Monday, April 30, 2012 8:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

can we count bruno mars as white for this exercise?

― frogbs in the trap (J0rdan S.), Monday, April 30, 2012 8:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

this is a much better, more persuasive and more succinct argument for ending "white" as an insult

http://agrammar.tumblr.com/post/207970845/white

― max, Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:20 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

this guy makes a convincing argument but i dunno, i've been told not to trust them there "trumblr whites"

in all seriousness, though, as much as nabs covers the main thing that's odious about that stuff, one of the other things that i find obnoxious about white people using "white" as an insult is the otherizing of your own race, like 'oh i'm white but it's okay i listen to rap and watch chappelle's show, that guy is WHITE white' which is just like a more passive way of pulling some 'black on the inside' bullshit.

plus it's just fucking stupid