Kenny Dalglish Won't Be Delivering the Module: English Premiership 2011-12

onimotm of course, but i'm here to provide balance

How much of the job is BEING ENGLAND MANAGER and how much is resources, tactical strategy, overseeing youth development, etc.? Because if it's all about pleasing hacks and motivating self-entitled multimillionaires, things may get bleak for Roy.

it's about the latter so that they listen to and follow the tactics, the hacks can be disregarded (or will fawn) if you manage that.

Really hoping he does what we thought capello would do- drop drop drop anyone with a hint of entitlement in their attitude or performance, start with a template of decent 'b' team players he can crack the whip over if needed.

I don't know how he can pick Gerrard at least. His skied penalty against Blackburn to get Roy sacked (I think that was the final straw?) is the most shocking thing I've seen a player do outside of sundry deliberate Shawcrossings.

hmm i've always shied away from calling that tbh, only he'll ever know.

Did he deliberately miss that penalty? Also I want to know what Chris meant about Woy "spreading lies" about Rafa. Saying "Rafa signed some expensive, shit players" doesn't count.

Can't ever be sure obviously, but the way he carefully sidefooted it a foot over is very suspect imo. Especially in the immediate context, when you'd expect him to have smashed it.

woy initimated that rafa treated dalglish badly, who knows if he did or not? rafa treated plenty of people badly, as i'm sure woy and dalglish themselves have done to get to the top of football management.

Wonder if Redknapp will want the England job post-tournament? 'Cos that next 2 years is the boring bit, slogging through qualification with half a dozen games a year, no glory possible.

It's also the bit where you win games.

True, but followed by a tournament in South America where England have even less chance than normal.

How much of the job is BEING ENGLAND MANAGER and how much is resources, tactical strategy, overseeing youth development, etc.?

Does anyone know the answer to this? Because I can't see Harry being interested in the second bit, and you suspect nor could the panel.

you can seperate tactics into 'putting them in the right place' and 'telling them to do the right things', but really it's baffling how often (i) has been a struggle for HR since xmas and (ii) consequently doesn't get a look in

Isn't (most of) the second bit Sirtrevor's job?

Not sure. It used to all be Bobby Robson's job back in the day. I imagine it'd've changed by the time eg Keegan was appointed.

you can seperate tactics into 'putting them in the right place' and 'telling them to do the right things', but really it's baffling how often (i) has been a struggle for HR since xmas and (ii) consequently doesn't get a look in

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:40 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hr has never been a good tactician, in the proper sense of the word. didn't vdv come in and say how happy he was that hr doesn't do any of the stuff jose did and just says something nice and motivational and tells him to just play? and when that doesn't work, he just 'as a go wheeling and dealing and gets rid of him.

my idea of intellectual colossus = Alan Turing, Perry Anderson

Roy Hodgson = charmingly, cheeringly literate, well-read, multilingual, gracious, gentlemanly football manager

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9235783/Is-Harry-Redknapp-paying-the-price-for-being-a-maverick-like-Brian-Clough.html

Hayward reacts

in footballing context hodgson is several layers above a god in intellectual terms- though his gut instincts may not match the backstreet smarts of many more successful- or popular- managers

I was waiting for the comparison to Clough. I must have slept through Harry winning the European Cup and League Championship.

yep

I do like the idea of RH clearing out dead wood and older ego players
and replacing with hungry young ones, planning for next few years
can almost imagine this working

though it probably won't happen

ehhhh, not comparing them favourably nor saying doing it with forest wasn't incredible, but neither competition the same then as now.

I'm never sure that that point holds up - there's only one European Champions every year after all.

there might be a touch more to it, all i'm saying

fewer teams in it back then?

passing it back to Shilton every 5 minutes

have been surprised to learn how 70s Clough was maybe quite defensive and pragmatic
I think my vision of his teams was distorted by the 1986-1991 sort of era, youth development Forest, flowing attacking play

I remember attending a preseason game immediately after the backpass rule had been introduced (it came into force July 1st or thereabouts, don't remember the year). A defender played a backpass under pressure from the striker, who immediately began shouting 'No backpass! No backpass!', but the keeper picked it up anyway. The whole crowd was just laughing at the guy, and the ref never gave anything.

I wish more backpasses were given

can still see it at ucd on wednesday nights tbh

arry vs woy is like keegan vs taylor p much. both would appear to be deeply flawed appointments.

woy (for all his waterstones loyalty cards) is no tactical rocket scientist - he's a strict and methodical martinet who drills line and shape into his teams, and tediously so by all accounts. now you can bemoan the state of the over-entitled english celebrity game all you like but no major international side has been crafted in this fashion probably since idk wartime or whatever. this is not something that's specific to england (even though it may well seem at its worst here), every country has to deal with it. woy is a meat stew hotpot cook being asked to whip up a quick something imo. and despite his erudition he is far more likely to be stubborn, grudgeful and obtuse in the face of resistance or the inevitable criticism that will arise than he is to think on his feet and find a way to transmit what it is that he wants quickly.

is arry's tubthumping lassitude any better, well probably not. it's just two different ways to get embarrassed at the quarter finals. but - and this is a huge but - if the fa are serious about giving woy a 5 year contract with the remit to oversee youth team integration and all sorts then that strieks me as a possibly catastrophic because at a crucial time in development i don't see anything in his cv to either justify that or to suggest there's anything in his methods that would be desirable as part of english football's framework.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/30/harry-redknapp-roy-hodgson-england?intcmp=239

decent from HR

getting to a QF would be a return to the bronze days of yore

I thought it was Brooking and Southgate with responsibility for youth development? Which would be preferable to giving it to Woy for the reasons about, and Southgate at least appears to know what he's talking about.

Maybe England have decided that they have 40 years of evidence that England are in actuality Greece and want a manager to drill them in that manner to victory.

right yeah rehhagel was the first person i thought of too. is anyone going to claim he could have done with germany (or whoever) what he did with greece?

No, you're right, 'big' nations probably wouldn't have wanted it or if they did knew that players/fans/press wouldn't have accepted it.

Germany seem to have made a better fist of integrating their creative players into a cohesive team unit than any England manager post-Ramsey tho.

so okay they're not Greece but usually they appear to have tactics, organisation, all that good stuff.

isn't a truth about England team that they have done poorly of late whoever has been in charge - at least since Sven went off the boil, c.2002 or 2004 say?

Capello is a major manager but produced mediocrity. McClaren produced mediocrity.

Hodgson might produce mediocrity but I don't see it as esp likely to be worse than the above, and I doubt that anyone would do much better except maybe Redknapp would attack more.

Would have been good idea maybe to send them out without a manager - but then, maybe EBJT would just run it.

I'll be interested to see them this summer 'cos they've now got a lot of v good players who play in the same position. I guess Cf is a straight fight btw Klose and Gomez, but the attacking players behind that could be any 3 of Ozil, Gotze, Kroos, Reus, Podolski, Schurrle. I can't see them making the classic England mistake of "they're the best players so fit 'em in somewhere"
xp

xxp ya i guess this is more like a lone rehhagel with no organization behind him managing a squad made up purely of effenberg and mattheus clones without the talent

everything fails with england, woy's cheap and he wanted it.

is cheapness that decisive for the organisation that's just employed Fab and Sven?

also what on earth have you got against Graham Turner?

a squad made up purely of effenberg and mattheus clones without the talent

this is beautiful

think I'm sort of agreeing with D-Mac, ie: as whoever does it is not going to succeed, might as well not throw extra tons of cash and hype at it

I am more optimistic than some about RH on the youth-coaching-set-up sort of front - think he could be really good for this, engaged, committed, etc

xposts. hodgson said something about how he was going to tap into dalglish's knowledge etc, unlike when benitez was here and he wasn't allowed to step foot into melwood. rafa actually brought kenny back to the club. he wanted him to have an ambassadorial role, but purslow shunted him off to the academy. hodsgon obv got his info from christian purslow, but he should've either kept his mouth shut or got his facts right before spouting shite like that.

r|t|c otm re. hodgson and youth development. i said a while ago that a selection panel of southgate, brooking and, fucking hell, i dunno, lee dixon would be my choice (if it had to be all english). i actually think hodgson will do alright. he'll lower expectations, win a few games, charm the press with some long words, and put the focus on youth development (rightly so). just what this country's youth develoment will look like if hodgson gets his claws into it i don't know.

is cheapness that decisive for the organisation that's just employed Fab and Sven?

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 14:05 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

Was just pondering this last night. Maybe the coffers actually are running a bit low after those two