Kenny Dalglish Won't Be Delivering the Module: English Premiership 2011-12

actually I had impression that LFC 2-0 CFC was a really good performance, just from radio and highlights

Winter is probably a nasty person, like the tabloid hacks? but I don't think Hayward is; he is into fan consortiums, etc

I suppose a question is, how unpleasant is this going to be for Hodgson?
like DM, I like RH so much that I don't want him to do something that is hurtful to him
but, it's a lot of money - maybe.

hodgson was a naive idiot with the press when in charge of lfc. what a manager says is tied to the results at a given time, and hodgson came out with rambling insane rubbish most of the time. dalglish or rafa may have come out with partisan or ott bullshit, but hodgson's interviews were distinct from that in their jaw-dropping stupidity and ignorance of how fans think and of the games they related to.

this now doesn't matter but it should be fairly funny when he starts waffling on about england without a care in the world and gets swiftly ditched.

like I say - I don't think RH did very well at LFC - but I don't get the vitriol, the level of anger that endures

i don't like hodgson because he treated us like fools and because he lied about benitez by saying he treated dalglish like shit. fuck off roy.

the broadsheet/tabloid binary doesn't really exist for sports journalism, since hayward and samuel don't seem drastically different writing between the two

which is to say, it does exist since the sun is resolutely grotty, but the daily mail is a 'broadsheet' for football purposes

I hope it's a lot of money.

only in the world of football is someone who has read a book that doesn't have an accompanying blockbuster automatically "a deep thinker"

martin samuel is supposedly being paid £400,000 shiny rothermere shillings per annum

hodgson, an order of magnitude more i imagine

rafa fits iago better than woy imo, but we're never going to sway each other on it. benitez often let players and other employees take unfair flak for his poor decisions.

t/s woy's most insane press meet vs rafa's or kk's?

woy's biggest whopper of a mistruth vs rafa's or kk's?

worst waste of money? worst pr disaster? worst run of results?

Or just base it all on 'worst at peddling the line that we're about to turn a magical corner and everyone is against us'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9h_WaAYcmc

surprising discord

Hodgson has read, I think, something like the whole of Bellow and Roth.

I'm not sure about that but I think I have seen it stated in print. Or even if he hasn't, let's say half of each author's work - which is thousands and thousands of pages.

I don't know very many people who have done that.

I don't, myself, think RH is a deep thinker. But he is well read, unusually eloquent, and multilingual, which, as I suggested upthread, is an intellectual achievement in itself.

Why anyone would care so fervently about managers putting 'spin' on their results in the media is really beyond me.

i don't really think roy's as terrible a human being as i'm making out. he does seem decent, and he's a good manager obv. just ya know, handle with care.

kenny dalglish prefers to elide results totally and concentrate on the sterling work of liverpool's commercial negotiators

He is almost a professor type character when people want soundbites and players want short team-talks.

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Hodgson at Liverpool was a mess. As much as I like being a contrarian when it comes to that club and its supporters, you can't help but admit it. I remember watching that team play a weak Villa and get absolutely played off the park. They seemed so lost. But it wasn't just Hodgson's fault. The near-bankruptcy board problems have seemingly been forgotten and which is something he won't have at England. He also won't have to pick apart a failed squad of Rafael Benetiz (although adding Konchesky to them wasn't exactly a wise decision.) Oh and his reign started with the court trial of his captain beating someone up in a nightclub.

Liverpool seemed like such a mess on all fronts that I give him the benefit of the doubt. He has had a decent career elsewhere. He rebuilt Inter and made it to a European final with them, iirc. He did the same with Fulham. His WBA side plays with poise and depending on the form of their more exciting players, can be a joy to watch.

He also has previous managing countries and is coming into the spot when the Sun and their savagesreaders view whoever takes the job with about as much sympathy as their ever going to get. Expectations aren't high. Everyone knows England are a mess and that the boat needs to be steadied first and foremost. I don't expect Woy to do any of this 'pick Paul Scholes' 'Arry wackiness. I expect realisation that we are Grant Holt country until someone works out ways otherwise.

Everyone has picked up on his intelligence and respectable oldmanness. 'Arry was never the guy to sort out English football. The media wanted him because the inevitable fall would be a delicious story. No-one in the immediate future is going to win anything with England, failure is the only option. But Woy seems like he could use his wise elder statesman bit to get somethings to change. He might actually look into youth player development, for example, or try to get the Premiership people to stop trying to take a massive dump in the mouths of the Lower Leagues.

there is this element to the story that I keep coming back to, namely ...

the fact that it has surprised everyone / upset their narrative / no one saw it coming
it all gets rationalized in retrospect - 'the FA want someone who lives near St George's Park' - but I have never read that as criterion before (though I have heard HR on south coast as a problem)

there is this weird way that 'football people' turn out to have been very ignorant about what was going on
while talking constantly like they knew what was going on (cf Shearer, Hansen, asked about Redknapp any time in last year or so?)

but they don't then reassess and admit flaws in their (systems) thinking and think about better ways of gathering and assessing information, or not talking BS in future.

and future problem = the fact that this was unexpected may create 'media narrative' vs Hodgson, 'should have been Redknapp' etc - bad for England, probably

(seems like I am suddenly an England fan again if RH gets the post)

i agree, i think wrongfooting the media narrative is a bad way to start. Their backing would have been a positive for redknapp.

i suppose i still won't watch england and generally would rather they continued to fail, but insofar as possible i hope hodgson is saved from the worst excesses of the vermin at the sun

i want to see him parading the world cup around anfield tbqfh

he could win the world cup with say, belgium in 2014

yeah, even better obv, or us.

D-mac, to be honest McClaren had media backing to start with!

(why 'TBH' I don't know. just a fact I think)

well it won't save you, but it's haf a start to a fair go at justified failure.

the sun piece is predictably graceless and spiteful

A manager, though, who is not quite so comfortable with strong-minded, independent top-flight internationals

OUR BRAVE BOYS

'strong-minded, independent'

EBJT, Lampard, Cole.
Hart, R Ferdinand, Rooney

wait, what did Hart do?

I am sick of the capacity of these tosser players to dictate and undermine things - they probably don't have any interest in what the manager says, if it's not Fergie or Mourinho

agree, Hart hasn't done anything specially bad yet but does seem very arrogant and 'untouchable' and is at richest club in world

whoever gets the job shd start by dropping anybody strong-minded and independent, maybe pick a team that can take instruction.

Carlos Tevez says he wants to stay at Manchester City. More news to follow...

if anyone can be found to buy him he should be let out ta fuck, dropped at the gates and his bag thrown after him. sickening arse.

Once the season's over they should permanently drop him but not sell him, instead keeping him inside a giant hamster wheel for fitness, to be let out in case they ever have another wobble.

Hodgson should have been given the England job after Hoddle left. At that point, his stock was unarguably highish, and his tactical acumen was still undoubted. Would have been a ton better than Keegan.

Amused by columnists this morning all furiously saying the players had all publicly said they wanted Arry. Well, when asked to say how much they wanted Arry:
Hack: "How would you feel about Arry being England manager."
Player: "Obviously he's very much so a real football man and at the end of the day that's got to be 110% good for England."

They would have given the same answers if asked how they felt about Graham Turner, Pol Pot or Scooby Doo.

turner wouldn't of past fit and proper person test tho

What happens if Hodgson goes to the Euros and oversees a disastrous first-round exit?

everybody's happy?

xpost Graham Turner, unlike Hodgson or Arry, has international tournament wins on his CV – the Welsh Cup.

lol xp

I feel everyone's at opposite ends of a scale on Roy's time at Liverpool/standing as an intellectual colossus and that the truth is somewhere in the middle. His Liverpool reign was ultimately unsuccessful even allowing for the problems around him at the club. His record with most of his other teams has been very good - he's mostly a good manager.

As for the intellectual colossus thing, well compared to his incurious peers he's clearly well read, thoughtful, engaging, etc. but he's still prone to saying some stupid things (particularly when at Liverpool). Maybe it's to his credit that he didn't want to disingenuously feed the masses a get out of jail YNWA sound-bite or talk diversionary nonsense about commercial deals but it shows a lack of nous imo that he was effectively talking himself out of what could have been a great job for him if he'd bought himself more time.

5 million scots can enjoy the rest of the tournament
xxxxps

onimotm of course, but i'm here to provide balance

How much of the job is BEING ENGLAND MANAGER and how much is resources, tactical strategy, overseeing youth development, etc.? Because if it's all about pleasing hacks and motivating self-entitled multimillionaires, things may get bleak for Roy.

it's about the latter so that they listen to and follow the tactics, the hacks can be disregarded (or will fawn) if you manage that.

Really hoping he does what we thought capello would do- drop drop drop anyone with a hint of entitlement in their attitude or performance, start with a template of decent 'b' team players he can crack the whip over if needed.

I don't know how he can pick Gerrard at least. His skied penalty against Blackburn to get Roy sacked (I think that was the final straw?) is the most shocking thing I've seen a player do outside of sundry deliberate Shawcrossings.

hmm i've always shied away from calling that tbh, only he'll ever know.

Did he deliberately miss that penalty? Also I want to know what Chris meant about Woy "spreading lies" about Rafa. Saying "Rafa signed some expensive, shit players" doesn't count.

Can't ever be sure obviously, but the way he carefully sidefooted it a foot over is very suspect imo. Especially in the immediate context, when you'd expect him to have smashed it.

woy initimated that rafa treated dalglish badly, who knows if he did or not? rafa treated plenty of people badly, as i'm sure woy and dalglish themselves have done to get to the top of football management.

Wonder if Redknapp will want the England job post-tournament? 'Cos that next 2 years is the boring bit, slogging through qualification with half a dozen games a year, no glory possible.

It's also the bit where you win games.