GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/04/girls-through-the-veil/256154/

yeah i remember coates taking that line before when something like this came up. it's certainly a good point that given this alfin woman is on the writing staff, characterization of nonwhite characters would maybe not be a strong suit on this show.

it's great that he takes that line, because it's encouraging rather than bleak. but i think i'm just a little too negative to feel totally comfortable with it.

obviously he's otm about power brokers in the various culture industries recognizing other voices.

naw, i meant the intensity of self in that article you posted, "why aren't _I_ the megastar"

Then again, a lot of being in your 20s involves pretty simple things being more complex than necessary.

mmmm yes

I feel somewhat like a jerk due to the fact there was obviously a lot of show set-up time since it's a first episode, but was there really a throwaway line about the English-accented girl being pregnant? I realize this is no-relationship, drama-tired me but I was like... really, they're using that issue in a show about a group of women? I mean, I guess it'd happen plot-wise eventually and they're probably being tricky by throwing it out right at the beginning of a show, but it still rubbed me the wrong way.

if nothing else, i'm glad this show has provided a chance to talk about race/privilege and i hope the creators have learned something from it... i mean aside from lesley arfin who just seems like a human troll. the cynical side of me imagines them all sitting around rolling their eyes at this criticism though :(

is being pregnant really just an 'issue' if you're doing a show about women's lives?

yeah, mh, i don't understand your criticism really

There is certainly an argument that EG "rich black girls are like *this*" is a less bad than "rich black girls ... aren't"

idk, on one level it's a very real thing that makes sense in the flow of the lives of these characters

on the other hand, it's also a plot device that nearly every long-running tv show uses

like what if there was a tv show about a group of women who were better than average at contraception and there was never a "someone may be pregnant" plot

this is me throwing male privilege all over the place and I'm going to stfu now

yeah things can be 'real issues' and overused plot twists at the same time

Oh now you're just looking for things to criticize!

its a plot device that every show uses because it is the most basic and universal fact of human existence iirc

otm

wait and see how they use it, at this point it's like saying 'oh great another show about a character with a JOB, so over-done'

pregnant Brit didn't seem strange to me at all

hard for me to believe it's only been one week since this aired considering the amount of dissection it's earned. I know it's been said before but I do wonder how different the publicity/backlash would have been if the show was called Lena!

There is certainly an argument that EG "rich black girls are like *this*" is a less bad than "rich black girls ... aren't"

― Andrew Farrell, Friday, April 20, 2012 10:56 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well, that might be an argument, but Coates is explicitly arguing the opposite. also he's saying it's likely to be less like "rich black girls are like *this*" and more likely to be "offensive stereotype of blackness" given that one of the writers thinks it's hilaaaaaaaarious to call taking a shit taking Obama to the White House.

it didn't seem strange to me at all either, just kinda a cliched tv way to go about it (announcing it dramatically as an argument shocka)

xp

hard for me to believe it's only been one week since this aired considering the amount of dissection it's earned. I know it's been said before but I do wonder how different the publicity/backlash would have been if the show was called Lena!

― da croupier, Friday, April 20, 2012 11:01 AM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think its more because it's about young ppl in brooklyn having sex + criterion-approved super-young female director, i mean, it hits all the agitated-internet sweet spots

plus nudity from a non-model and peter scolari; perfect storm imo

ya, if it was just peter scolari alone, we would be talking about it and nothing else for weeks

i don't know about you guys but i think that there has been some GREAT and thoughtful criticism written about this show that i have enjoyed reading way more than i enjoyed watching the show...this is one of those weeks i am actually happy to be living in the age of blogs.

Obviously it still would have gotten a lot of attention, but I think such an ambitious title validated both the wave of initial praise and the wave of people holding it to a higher standard than everything else on TV. Which isn't to say the criticism isn't valid, just - as Coates notes - a bit blinkered.

I should watch this Tiny Furniture movie, huh?

opinion on that is p divided itt, but i really liked tiny furniture.

if you think about the other options for vanity projects currently on major networks that you could compare this i got two immediate analogues: Louie (which is incredible and is gonna be an unfair comparison at least until GIRLS gets through two seasons) and Whitney, which is so AMAZINGLY shitty that GIRLS is already leaps and bounds ahead of it, so

say whatever you want about GIRLS but no one in their right mind would say it's worse than Whitney

and I say this as someone who has forced himself to watch the entire first season of Whitney, mostly on ffwd

wth is Whitney?!

http://www.nbc.com/whitney/

i don't want to live in a world where "not as bad as whitney" is any kind of laudable achievement

yeah that looks dreadful

bene, no argument; what i'm asking is what is it WORSE than within its field? how many directed by/written by/starring sitcoms are better than GIRLS even after one episode?

currently running of course, i know "Mary Tyler Moore was so much better"

Whitney is the most trad-sitcom crap ever. Characters and plots calculated to appeal to a cross-section of groups that might watch tv in that timeslot and everything.

xp not that she wrote MTM, whatever, you get what i'm getting at

Can I just take a moment to lament abt my v wonderful but maybe a bit too feministy friend who seems to think the only reason people don't like this show is that it's centered around women, and that How To Make It In America is the EXACT SAME SHOW but with men and how nobody hated on that, etc.

i think that definitely makes it more of a target, there is no doubt

xpost

No one watched it either

i think it's true that a lot of pressure is being placed on this show in part because a young woman created it. i mean, i am putting a lot of pressure on this show for that reason. but it's a little more complex than people hate this show because they hate women. i think part of the reason i was a little bummed there were no people of color in prominent roles is because i was so excited about and invested in the show.

xxp

but yes, also, s1ocki otm. the bruni response is frankly insane, for example.

haha bruni frankly

How To Make It In America is the EXACT SAME SHOW but with men and how nobody hated on that, etc.

well nobody hated on 'how to make it...' cuz nobody watched it, tbf

I h8d on it and also did not watch it

what was bruni's thing

part of the complexity at play is that it's a show about easy-to-hate women, written by/directed by/starring a woman
so you're supposed to hate the characters but they want you to like the show
except many people connect the characters to the creators which is a ley line she's seemingly intentionally left intact
so everybody gets to play hunt the wumpus on everyone involved's social media and promo press to get an AHA they ARE really just dumb bitches
which tbf is absolutely NOT the way any normal male-centric sitcom would work but they're absolutely intentionally playing to that dynamic
though i suppose if james franco started an HBO sitcom...

http://bruni.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/31/naked-in-new-york/

no such thing as a bit too feministy tbrr

wait no:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/opinion/sunday/bruni-the-bleaker-sex.html