2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

Suzy's mom was calling McCain the old, angry fucker for once.

no one says listen pal anymore

...actually they do too, IN SCOTLAND.

I'm a hack too. I respect what he did in Nam. He could have gone home, but instead chose to stay in a box for 5.5 years. Folks around here don't do anything more heroic than refresh their browsers every half hour.

-- Bill Magill, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 21:06 (31 minutes ago) Link

But why do you respect him for that? Why is this particularly heroic? If he indeed could have gone home, then isn't it just plain stupid to stay there?

I just don't get the heroism-card that's being played out. A card from a terrible, useless war. I mean, I get it, but I don't get it...

*sigh*

i think some people might call it heroic because the act showed solidarity with the other prisoners who were still there?

(i could be wrong -- isn't that what happened though?)

Basically, that type of decision is difficult to comprehend by today's standards where the number one virtue preached by our society is "get yours".

Who cares is he's a "hero" or not? I just said that he deserves tremendous respect for what he went through during his military service. I can't see how that's a controversial point. (n.1)

___________________________
(n.1) And I'm not talking about what Bill mentioned (the 5.5 years). My comment is based on his fighting in a war and being a POW.

@Mark, put that way, I can understand it, sure, on the point of solidarity.
I think pacifism blocked my view on this one.

"(i could be wrong -- isn't that what happened though?)"

Yes.

"If he indeed could have gone home, then isn't it just plain stupid to stay there?"

I'd like to think I would have made the same decision he did.

I'm REALLY not gonna say it's somewhat comparable to the subjective heroism of the 9/11 hijackers.

I'm really not.

military rules stipulate that the first captured is the first get out, according to the laws (or maybe just traditions) of war captors don't get to decide which prisoners go free in an exchange, just how many. the NVA knew who McCain was (son of an admiral) and wanted to let him go as a goodwill gesture, or maybe cos they thought he'd be more valuable (i forget this point), but he refused, cos according to the rules every other prisoner was ahead of him in line.

Correct, first in, first out.

fuck you guys hes a hero

no ones asking him to be YOUR hero but we're talking about a specific context i dont think you have much of an argument

haha Morbz, never change.

its really ok to admit that someone who would be terrible for the country as president may have in fact done some good things

i know a lot of folks really like obama cuz he's seen as a liberal trojan horse, sneaking lefty politics under the guise of centrist speech making, and i've used this as a defense of him, but i really do respect that notion that we can raise the level of discourse beyond petty and misleading partisanship.

okay not to be dumb, but what exactly are mccains foreign policy qualifications besides being a POW? Thats all anyone ever mentions...

he FOUGHT in a WAR what more do you want

he's old!

In January 1993 McCain was named chairman of the board of directors of the International Republican Institute,[118] a non-profit democracy promotion organization with informal ties to the Republican party. The position would allow McCain to bolster his foreign policy expertise and credentials.

5 minutes on Wikipedia led me to this.

you're an american hero

failing to learn lesson about pointless wars after fighting in pointless war = "foreign policy experience"

20 years and ranking member status on Senate Armed Services Committee isn't too shabby. There are people who have more foreign policy experience than he does, but he's got far more than Clinton or Obama.

The central point of the McCain POW story isn't that he offered some heroic service to his country -- it's that he was willing to stay in a torturous situation based on abstract principles and codes that it would have been incredibly easy to rationalize his way out of holding to, something his supporters will tell you displays a very high level of integrity and dedication to ideals. Which is completely true, and nobody who hasn't stood around in a cage of mangled legs is going to have much rhetorical success trying to argue otherwise. A more important question, in terms of attacking the guy, is whether that same level of dedication to principle has been kept up throughout his time in government, especially in instances where the principle itself has been easier to fudge: pulling it off once does not mean pulling it off always.

Hahaha pardon me that's "stood around in a cage ON mangled legs"

I have no evidence that the North Vietnamese ever constructed cages out of human body parts, and suspect that they would not have done so due to the high possibility of escape

US magazine brings out the cuteness guns

http://www.usmagazine.com/Barack_Obama_hes_just_like_us_022708

is that a muslim tricycle

nice mini-turban

red white and blue handlebar streamers = proof of patriotism from a young age

was that taken before or after he decided to become president

Would losing the popular vote in Texas and Ohio but getting a delegate lead in Texas be the worst outcome for Obama next Tuesday? It would allow Clinton a big storyline in terms of the delegate counts not reflecting the will of the people and might generate some actual sympathy from dems still wincing over the 2000 national election.

I think that's a stretch, but hey, I'm sure they'll try to spin it that way

Maybe ID, but I think -- and I hope -- it's an academic question.

http://i25.tinypic.com/25flvso.jpg

WHAT'S HE HIDING

So, boxers or briefs? Bill Clinton said he wore boxers in a 1992 interview with MTV.

I don't answer those humiliating questions. But whichever one it is, I look good in 'em!

http://www.usmagazine.com/barack_obama_refuses_to_answer_boxers_or_briefs_question

haha okay that is a funny answer

lol im the shit kiss my ass us magazine

Interesting article about Obama's 'Behavioral Economics' Philosophy, and how it can sheds light on the way he analyzes other issues, as well.

hi i linked to that way upthread

2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

behavioral economics = a rogue economist discovers a bunch of shit that is common sense to non-economists

but that's another thread

Clinton preferred briefs.

if Clinton had been honest he'd have answered "neither"

That talk radio host that McCain apologized for was on NPR today - he basically said he was barely a McCain supporter to begin with and now no longer calls himself one.

A big hint from Gov. Bill Richardson, D-N.M., that he may get off the fence soon: "I don't think this race is over. But I may make a decision and do an endorsement," Richardson told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. He added that he doesn't feel bound to support Clinton just because New Mexico voted for her: "It was very close, Wolf, it was like half a percent. . . . So I think I have flexibility."

it was like half a percent! I could be veep for either one! no, srsly!

xpost

Does Obama go 'commando'?

I haven't been forced to give this much thought to a politicians member since Lyndon Johnson.