I HATE CLUBBING

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(Dan startlingly on the money about everyone deciding where the cover ends and the book starts for themselves, I was sorta thinking this and failing to formulate it in words).

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

But you can put an exciting sci-fi novel cover on a phone book and it's still just a phone book on the inside isn't it? Sometimes a cover is just a cover.

― Kim (Kim), Saturday, 12 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a phone book that has decided it'd like a sci-fi cover, though! That definitly makes a difference.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

It'd be better than some of the sci-fi novels I've read anyway.

― Kim (Kim), Saturday, 12 June 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course a Dandy can be a woman, don't be so narrow minded and sexist!

I was just asking! Trying to catch up on your lingo. I've not heard it used this way until now.

― Maria D., Saturday, 12 June 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

It's kinda cool and interesting that all this developed from an I Hate Clubbing thread, actually - one of the things I found really revelatory when I started going to raves and stuff was just how liberating nobody caring how you danced could feel. That nobody was judging you on it. The last time I was in a real, first-post-of-this-thread-type club, a bouncer walked up to me and said, really menacingly, "don't dance like that". I left pretty soon after.

This is IT. I didn't think I liked dancing or dance music at all until I went to a rave. Obviously drugs had a help in that, but I feel that going to raves in the UK is a much nicer experience than going to a club. This is basically down to the fact there's a lot less surface and a lot more feeling. People wear their shitest gear to go raving and yet their best clobber to go clubbing. I feel uncomfortable in clubs because I'm constantly worried about the image I'm giving off. I get that thing where you think everyone's looking at you and judging you by your clothes and the way you walk and how much gel is in your hair. You certainly don't get this at a rave because no-one gives a flying fuckslash what you're wearing. Just so long as you're a decent, friendly person. I tried to explain this to a girlfriend who had never been raving before and was pretty much anti drugs. The only argument she came up with was "but the music's shit and it's full of hippies". That's about the time I realised we weren't meant to be.

― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 12 June 2004 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Was she unwilling to come along and check it out just once?

― Maria D., Saturday, 12 June 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

DL, come to Brighton next Saturday!

Yeah, you're totally spot-on. It's like the drugs power these scenes of acceptance that would be totally amazing even if you weren't on drugs. Universal impotence = no cockwaving, maybe? (The squatter scene is my favourite version of this, actually, 'cos it's got this brilliant dynamic between people who squat because their father is a Tory MP and doesn't understand them, maaan, and people who squat because they don't have houses). I love how you can tell what subcultures people were into before rave from the dancing style they bring to it, all these 120bpm versions of metal, indie, pop, jarvis-cocker-does-cruel-imitation-of-rachel-stevens-pastiche (may just be me).

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 23:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, when we first met she said she was interested in trying ecstasy. Later on she decided that she never wanted to try it, which was fair enough and then even later she would tell me off for smoking pot on the weekends, even if it wasn't in front of her. So no, she wasn't interested in going to a rave. Also festivals were beneath her because they are "disgusting and dirty". Anyway, this is all off topic since this thread is about hipsters.

― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 12 June 2004 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, this thread isn't about hipsters, it's about morphing pictures of your face onto things, have you read it?

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 23:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I love how you can tell what subcultures people were into before rave from the dancing style they bring to it, all these 120bpm versions of metal, indie, pop, jarvis-cocker-does-cruel-imitation-of-rachel-stevens-pastiche (may just be me).

Hahahahahah! YEh, all my metal friends do weird punching-circle dances when they go to raves, like a friendly but more ballistic style of moshing.

What's happening in Brighton? I'd really like to go but I'm not very rich and I want to lay off getting rat-arsed again until Glastonbury. Tell me next time something's on and I'll definitely turn up.

― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 12 June 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

The circle punching dance is amazing! It's like they have a big lump of putty in their hand that they're squashing really flat.

Brighton is this big outdoor party, it sounds awesome, I'm pretty excited about it. I only know one person who's going, so I'll get the details off them tomorrow or something...

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

hangon, this isn't the Glade festival is it?

― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3647/heresdoggy.jpg

Heeeeeeeere's DOGGY!

― don (don), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Nah, I am going to Glade though! I'm sharing a tent with these four gorgeous fashionista girls, somehow, I kinda can't wait.

xpost: HAHAHAHAHA

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/971/cometodoggy.jpg

Come To Doggy

― don (don), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

JESUS CHRIST! AARGH! I really do have a freakish face! I'm not sure I can look at those! Nice one though!

greg: you lucky bastard. my friend told me about Glade and I think he wants to go. Well, so do I but I really have to save money before my bank manager puts me in thumbtacks and makes me be the Queen's personal rickshaw monkey for not paying back my overdraft. I'm quite pissed off about not going to either of those.

― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

F: I'm really worried about it! I've never done any drugs, really.
G: F____, you do coke all the time.
F: That's different though!

Couldn't you sell your time-travelling memoirs, D?

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm quite pissed off about not going to either of those.

um, I meant Brighton and the Glade, not thumbtacks and rickshaws.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 13 June 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I don't count coke as a proper drug. It's like, "Here, have some of this- it's really great, it makes you shout at people about money". Coke isn't a drug-user's drug. It's for dicks. Maybe I sound like a dick for saying it, but it's true.

Couldn't you sell your time-travelling memoirs, D?

No, because Goebbels brainwashed me in 1940 so I'd forget everything.

― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 13 June 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

dog latin correct re: raves. nearly always a strange and interesting mix of people at raves. a sense of who the hell are all these people, that seem to be coming from loads of different milieus

― charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 13 June 2004 07:01 (twenty-one years ago)

[didn't read massive load of posts]

BOOM-TS-TS-BOOM-TS-BOOM-TS-etc.-rpt.-ad-naseum-til-passout-ono-rnadom-couch

― wasted (nickalicious), Sunday, 13 June 2004 07:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, yeah let's have a thread about clubs vs. raves it will go on forever and will eventually subsume ILX entirely.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Sunday, 13 June 2004 07:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I ran into this thread late - so is it OK for me to hate on suburbanites (basically LA-area B&T'ers) who come into my town, take up our parking spaces, and fuck up our beach? k thanks

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

the cover of a book can be appreciated for being a good cover i.e. a striking, inspiring design and image. however, the actual book content could be not at all to your tastes or even fit a general perception of crapness. but hey, it had a nice cover. does that count for anything? that's up to you and your valuation system.

this is also true of people. and perhaps the hipster critics are commenting based on their past experiences - finding the book covers to be a front for a crap book all too often.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think the people/book thing stands up. It just doesn't make sense. I mean, at all!

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:12 (twenty-one years ago)

does to me. in that people are often judged by how they look, irrespective of the possibility that their image does not really reflect their personality, perhaps intentionally, perhaps mistakenly. but judged they remain, and as you pointed out upthread image is important in conveying a message about you, no? why doesn't it make sense? do you not consider mark and co's opinion to be understandable if not reasonable?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

You can tell loads about people *and* books from how they look obv.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:38 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe but how accurate it is is another matter, which is my point

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I just think it's not the right analogy. I need to think about why, beyond "books are something which are in shelves in my room, people are not", if that's not adequate enough in itself.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

oh you were like that with the Mcdonalds/pop music argument as well two years ago. i don't know why you need to be so pragmatic about it dude other than a resentment of cliches - which i understand and share to an extent.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

cliches are cliches because they are true

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

perhaps another interesting and relevant thing about all this is the age difference between the pros and the antis - the pros seem to be younger

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:56 (twenty-one years ago)

What a revolutionary idea!

Clubbing! It's something you grow out of!

― Apostrophe Catastrophe (kate), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:58 (twenty-one years ago)

dog latin is young, though.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Next week: old people dislike rock music and driving too fast! (Except Alex in NYC)

― Apostrophe Catastrophe (kate), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread is useful because it taught me what Bridge and Tunnel means, dont know why the people called their bar/club that.

as regards Bridge and Tunnel, I suppose I am the archetypal Bridge and Tunneler. started when I was 16, travelling thorguh bridges and tunels on the train to london from my beloved CommuterTown home in search of the bright lights of Gilles Peterson et al. carried on doing so until this day, except i have moved to london recently, so i guess i can't keep on calling myself that.

But really, central london is full of people travelling in to go out cos there isnt so much good nightlife further out of zone 1. if you are presented with the nightlife opportunities of say, Hemel Hempstead (viz. Visage and Ethos at leisureworld), then a trip to london seems pretty attractive.

to be honest, if you move to eg. clerkenwell, which has fabric, turnmills, fluid, lifthouse etc. then you have to think before you move there: "hmmmm loads of bars/nightclubs here, maybe better move somewhere quieter".
Is it not like moving to Gillespie Road and complaining that every Saturday loads of Arsenal fans come down, piss in gardens, leave litter everywhere, make loads of noise etc etc?

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

true, i am only 23 and i was exposed to clubbing form the ages of 17-21.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:03 (twenty-one years ago)

don't take it like that kate, i'm actually referring to those that Gareth is taking issue with (of whom you were not one). perhaps age is a factor there - even if there's only a few years gap. and this was about hipsters/irony lovers/whatever not clubbing per se.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

The clubbing thing also ties in with my hippie idea that it's the drug of the nation. Young people today will be one day be remembered as the clubbers, the ibiza holidayers - not the Punks, not the Hippies, not the Teds or the Ravers or the Mods or the Rockers. There's nothing rebellious about clubbing - it's a capitalist's wet dream. Keep all the hotheaded youngsters locked in a little box and let gorillas keep them under control. If they take drugs or get in fights, it doesn't matter because they're spending a lot of money and they're doing it well out of our way.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:07 (twenty-one years ago)

stop harshing my anti-establishment buzz dude. also, how's my hair?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

In the words of an old friend of mine, a Hacienda veteran: "It might as well have been Norman Tebbit handing out those e's".

― Tag (Tag), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

This is one of those threads where you really want to respond to something, then you find you're only halfway down it and that topic is long done. But Gareth otm, generally.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i wonder if he ever gets tired of being otm all the time

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Gareth takes The Money, spends on deerstalker hats.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:19 (twenty-one years ago)

and frozen pizzas.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

(Haha Ronan, see when you say "the whole book/cover analogy is flawed", I think, "YES EXACTLY!!! FUCK THE COVER!!!!!" Perhaps I should find a new catchphrase so that people don't think I'm trying to be "deep".)

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Young people today will be one day be remembered as the clubbers, the ibiza holidayers - not the Punks, not the Hippies, not the Teds or the Ravers or the Mods or the Rockers. There's nothing rebellious about clubbing - it's a capitalist's wet dream.

In other words, just like the Hippies, Mods, etc. I don't think young people *today* will be remembered for clubbing -- maybe the late '80s lot. But not us. i mean, people still listen to psychedelic music, punk music -- but that won't define the early naughties either.

― ENRQ (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Enrique - no one's going to remember this generation as being in psychedelic music. Up until fairly recently you couldn't switch on the telly without youth culture programmes "banging" on about clubbing and Ibiza and Ayia Napa etc. At least hippies, mods etc tried to have a social or political outlook or at least make some kind of statement in the interest of their generation. The only statement clubbers make is that they've given up and would rather just chug money into large corporations and dodgy looking "businessmen" in black suits.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what I mean -- club music (house, trance) went down the dumper and is now strickly minority. Things have changed a lot in the last decade. I don't think 4/4 music defines us -- the big popular music scene since the late nineties has been rnb/hip-hop, and to an extent, garage. Mods were ultra-conformist anyway.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

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