the USA, Israel, and national interest

Let it become absorbed by secular Westernism

Of which Israel is a notable exponent?

fair amount of truth in that perrin post, though obviously it's framed in a conspiracy-theory mode that makes israel the only party, the only agency, in the whole mess.

xposts

God-bless-our-righteous-bombs secular Westernism

saying you're sympathetic to Palestinians but have no respect for their culture is kind of worthless. you're basically saying i'd dig these people if they were entirely different than they are.

israeli culture is secular and western?!

Uh no. There's value to human life. There's no intrinsic value to human beliefs.

And yes. Israeli culture is secular and western. Ever been to Tel Aviv?

Or Haifa?

their culture=the way they live

There isn't really intrinsic value to human life.

Secular and western, a bit like Turkey

i wish people who employed this kind of rhetoric would just acknowledge that the only way to achieve the "consumption" of one culture by another is to kill everyone of that culture.

Yay. Let's support clitoridectomies too. :/

lol mordy are u drunk

what are you even talking about?

what is the standard of 'secular' we are using? france? the US?

human culture = clitoredectomies

israeli state probably a biiit more secular than a hamas-governed palestine, but we are talking about degrees.

Dude, what are you talking about? I'm not exactly lobbing a challops here. Some cultures suck. Some aspects of some cultures suck. We have no obligation to tolerate them.

probably best if they ignored each other, passive-aggresively.

I think I could take Israel a lot more seriously if they granted Palestinians living within Israel the same rights as Jews.

Uh, they do. Arab citizens have the exact same rights as Jews.

There are even Arab representatives in the knesset.

how dare they bring their disgusting fundamentalist culture into the western secular knesset

they were elected... you know... Democracy.

Like Hamas were, you mean?

Some cultures suck. Some aspects of some cultures suck. We have no obligation to tolerate them.

That's funny, I know someone who insists on believing that about another group mentioned in this thread....

Some cultures suck.

e.g., that fucking your inferior wife thru a hole in the sheet while illegally occupying land cuz God gave it to you 5,000 years ago stuff.

e.g., that fucking your inferior wife thru a hole in the sheet while illegally occupying land cuz God gave it to you 5,000 years ago stuff.

Cute. Asshole.

Again, I'm not saying anything challopsy here. I hate large swaths of Charedi culture too.

I think I could take Israel a lot more seriously if they granted Palestinians living within Israel the same rights as Jews.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:28 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im pretty sure they do tbh but i am open to persuasion if my perception is wrong.

im no challops expert but "i hate all fundamentalist religion" + "a lot of human culture sucks" + "israel should consume palestine" is kind of a challops trifecta

The third one is more challopsy than the first two - but I don't see what is challopsy about not liking certain cultures.

can you not see the distinction between "i have no respect for palestinian culture" and "Muslim fundamentalism is appalling in many ways"? also many people believe the latter without calling for actions that are tantamount to exterminating Muslims (good luck with that, by the way.)

Wow. I never called for exterminating anyone.

But nice strawman, I guess??

i believe you didn't mean to but you basically did.

there has to be a mechanism by which the better culture consumes the worse one, see?

on a syntactical level you did call for exterminating muslims

Uh, yeah. Acculturation? How do you think my ghetto great-grandparents' became Americans?

That's totally bullshit, btw. I didn't call for extermination on any level.

louis is suspiciously absent from this thread.

i just mean--you want them to not be muslims anymore, right? just palestians, or arabs

he doesn't want them to be palestinans in any meaningful sense if he abhors their culture.

i.e. the Australian 'stolen generation' was an act of cultural genocide.

I don't want charedi Jews to be charedi anymore. That doesn't mean I don't want them to be Jews anymore.

Honestly, I don't know what you're arguing anymore. I think it's pretty clear what I believe. I think that religious sentiments on both sides have gotten in the way of a lasting peace, and I'd like to see those ideologies excised.

Maybe I'm just too Marx influenced - but I don't see any inherent value to being /anything/. If it doesn't hurt anyone, then go for it. But I think in most circumstances, religion+culture are methods by which people are kept from having self-determinacy.

i don't really know why i'm in this damn thread, so fair enough. i think there are some implications to your rhetoric that you're not examining, but you seem like a good dude and go Eagles and everything.

oh god xpost please stop

what the hell do you even mean by 'culture' anyway

their food? their holidays? their backwards religious beliefs? what? saying that a 'culture sucks' sounds to me like a cutesy t-shirt way of freighting some pretty hateful shit, imo

xp late to the party

what do (any of) you mean by culture here? it's sort of irrelevant, not completely, but you don't need to 'respect' either culture particularly to want the thing to be resolved.

xpost!

i.e. the Australian 'stolen generation' was an act of cultural genocide.

― dowd, Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:46 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

illustrating what i mean. why not just 'genocide', which seems less redundant?