The official thread for Lord Of The Rings - The Return Of The King [LOTR ROTK TROTK ROK] (NOW CONTAINS SPOILERS)

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i saw this on Friday & I could not believe how great it was. Although it was really long (I doubted my attention span) I didn't fidget or anything. I was amazed by the whole thing & actually cried three times, but maybe that's just cos I'm a big girl!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 22 December 2003 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

aw, the girl i saw it with blubbed as well - i was a bit too baffled by the constant 'endings' to shed tears tho

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, Minas Tirith looked exactly right but seemed to fall apart a bit too easily.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 22 December 2003 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Def stevem, there was far too many endings as such. (the first time I cried was when the girl killed one of the 9 riders on the nascor (???) & then her father (the King of Rohan - sorry i am still not sure who all of the characters are!) died. It was very sad. Still great film!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 22 December 2003 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

it was only a model Ricardo

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i actually thought about shouting that out when they did the first big shots of Minas Tirith but figured i would get tuts and jeers rather than appreciative gales of laughter - much like ILX in that respect

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Ppl kept clapping in the cinema when I watched it, which I found extremely annoying!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 22 December 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

the only time i have really wanted to applaud and cheer in a cinema was actually during The Matrix Reloaded, weirdly enough. but of course there were many times during ROTK where i was just so impressed that i couldn't really communicated it anyway so just kept shtum

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

saw it yesterday. good fun all through, and frodo/sam/gollum's sequences in Cirith Ungol + Mount Doom were particularly good.
i wasn't that pleased with Shelob though, but then my expectations were high cos ive been dreaming about this as a cinematic sequence ever since i first read it at age 9. I don't know why, in the book she's given a character, and we didn't get that here. i wanted some deamonic flashing eyes, and a diseased body-sac.
the film remined you that Tolkien was a good plot writer, something that can get obscured in the 3rd vol amidst all the description, songs and speechifiying.

― pete s, Monday, 22 December 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

The spider section was very disappointing.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

The beacons got better and better I think, and showed something of the size of Gondor. Some of them were ridiculously weeny and whot Pete said about the one above the clouds - arf. One of my favourite things was the "watch the beacons go speeding across the west" (or worrever) and they got going rather well.

I do worry that because we got away lightly with the elves in the theatrical version that they're gonna be all over the extended version. Arwen's part was a rubbidge bit of shoehorning.

I really liked MORGUL VALE, especially the creepy green lighting and the hem hem ISSUING OF THE HORDES. Also the whacking grebt bit of the corruption of Gollum at the start = v creepy! Sad to see no mention of the yellow face.

What Ricardo said about the Corsairs AND Denethor but they might might be able to recover this in the extended.

Boo to elves! Also I was retroactively annoyed at the Elves fighting at Helms Deep in TTT. If they fought then then why didn't they come and fight again in Gondor AND why didn't anybody notice, esp the fighters from Rohan! It would have made much more sense if they hadn't fought AT ALL grr argh.

― Sarah (starry), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i can see that Shelob's lack of character may be a disappointment to the book-readers but it was a good attempt given the limited time they had. it was in this film more than the others that i did sense that they were desperately trying to cram as much as they could in, the problem being that there is just too much to really deal with everything that satisfactorily.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Like Pete I was hoping we'd get a good bit of gore from Sam giving Shelob a good prod in the belly. She was pretty fucking scary but Iwould have expected something much larger and ENGORGED but still eeeeeeeeeek.

Who else thought Frodo was looking like Marilyn Manson after he got all webbed up?

― Sarah (starry), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

It did definitely appear that they were trying to cram too much into it.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think they had a choice there - although stretching it to 4 hours may have been feasible - i expect this to happen with the DVD tho

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I have heard that the extended edition will be about 4 hours long.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Saw this yesterday. OK. I liked it. BUT! it was almost too intense. I was in a somewhat fragile state due to being extremely hungover, so maybe watching 3 hours of crazy battle scenes and speeches about death and loss wasn't a great idea. I had more fun watching Two Towers at home on DVD so that I could take a break in the middle. Agree that the multiple endings were annoying.
Questions: 1. So are we just not supposed to care about the blonde warrior chick who's in love with the new king? No resolution for her plot line.
2. Can someone please tell those of us who haven't read the books (ie, me) what the Scouring of the Shire is? I keep reading references to it but don't know what it is.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Saruman and Wormtongue cause trub in the Shire, but end up getting their asses kicked by the Hobbits. I am sure someone is in the process of typing out the full details for you...

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

(um, which one is Wormtongue?)

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

2. SotS = A nearly powerless Saruman flees to the Shire and sets up a fascist state there (based I think on nothing more than his persuasiveness), and when the Hobbits return home they restore order.

1. There's a cut-out plot where Eowyn meets Faramir as he's recovering in the Houses of Healing (=the hospital) and they fall for each other. Which they sort of hint at in the film (what with the clearly erotically-charged standing next to each other that they're doing at the end).

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 22 December 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Wormtongue is the creepy assistant from The Two Towers.

A smart friend of mine points out that because they don't resolve Saruman one way or the other, he is basically the only serious power left in Middle-Earth at the end of the film.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

A) In my opinion, twas the bomb.
B) Very hobbiterotic. There were at least 5 scenes where I expected Sam & Frodo or Merry & Pippin to kiss.
C) Scene that did the greatest emotional manipulation upon me: Pippin singing to Denethor whilst Faramir rode to his certain doom. Who knew Billy Boyd had such a sweet voice?

x-post Wormtongue is the black-haired wizard that was kinda "handling" Theodren pre-Gandalf-freeing-his-mind.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the end part with Sam and Frodo was so ridiculously sexual. I usually scoff at people searching for hidden homoeroticisms, but goodness! It was pretty blatant.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Just remembered the most important thing:

ROSIE COTTON = GEORGE DAWES!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Wormtongue not a wizard, just a man.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post

well Jackson would deny that vehemently - and is it right to just read sexuality into these things. can't two men (or in this case hobbits, who are not men thus different) just say they love each other and be charmed by each other's astonishing displays of courage, honour, loyalty, trust and generosity without it being read as some hobbo-erotic thang?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm taking that to a new thread.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

...about this Shelob's character thing -- most of that in the book comes from the omniscient narrator, after all. No easy way to film that, especially since neither Frodo, Sam, nor even Gollum much knows anything about her.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

(are you talking about the spider thingie?) *ducks*

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

yeh that's why the Orc was telling his cronies about how and what Shelob does with her prey - no other way to know, and showing Shelob catching other people would've been a waste of film time overall

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Ricardo, you have ruined my favourite movie this year.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Uh huh!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

she didn't really remind me of him

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, steve I see no reason who two mature hobbits of the same gender can't promise to never leave each other and take care of each other, and - oh who am I kidding, this was The Hobbit 2: the Handfasting.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

*shudders*

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

It's just in one shot, when we see her for the first time in this film.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

"Yeah but no but yeah so Sam came back to the Shire and he said Frodo had been gaying up with him like UGH but no what are you saying get OUT"

― Rosie DawesCotton (starry), Monday, 22 December 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm kind of glad I don't know who George Dawes is -- I have a feeling I'm better off not knowing.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 22 December 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

your life is poorer for not knowing trust me

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.base58.com/ilx/georgedawes.jpg

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

actually that's not George Dawes but the actor and comedian Matt Lucas who plays him (tho here he is playing somebody else)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

He plays a red x?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 December 2003 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i can see the image fine, how odd

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 22 December 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I completely lost my shit during the Pippin-&-Gandalf-ride-away-Merry-says-"I don't know what's going to happen" bit. I couldn't tell if the 13 year old boy sitting next to me was as affected by this scene as me or if he was laughing at me.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 22 December 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

also *annie lennox?* good lord peter jackson you have let us down.
after the inspired choice for last year's film this was execrable

― pete s, Monday, 22 December 2003 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The song from the Two Towers was even worse.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 22 December 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I was about to say, the Two Towers choice was as inspired as a damp wet fart.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 December 2003 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, a chance to get in some longer, reflective thoughts, especially since I'm out of here for a few days after tomorrow.

Still great, of course, still thinking about it, already waiting a bit impatiently to seeing it with my family on the 25th. Watching all three movies in a row was instructive because it actually showed to me how each movie was different for all that it was telling a part of a larger story. In part this was because of the need to be able to give each section a proper general sense of a smaller story and ending, I think, but there were other differences and choices as well -- a lot of it comes down to Howard Shore's music, I think. It may seem strange, but he found some extremely sharp themes and worked them very, very well, to astonishing effect.

My bets for the extended edition, besides the known Saruman, Mouth of Sauron and Houses of Healing sequences, include the Gandalf/Witchking confrontation (shown in the preview), quite possibly Denethor's palantir, an extended section showing the time spent for Frodo/Sam to get to Mount Doom across Mordor matching Aragorn's march to the Black Gate as taking some days for both of them.

Some of the technical points still leave me so amazed...I'm thinking in particular of the part where you can see Faramir and his men about to start their doomed attack on Osgiliath. Behind the line of horsemen in the distance, you can see Minas Tirith looming up, shimmering in the heat of the day. It's a subtle but crucial touch. Then there's the sudden second of silence before Minas Morgul sends out the streaming signal of pale light, or how the flames in Mt. Doom suddenly pulls away to reveal Frodo standing over the abyss.

Having seen all the films now, I think about how in my head I always shoot a movie of LOTR every time I read it, much like I do with any fictional narrative I read. I think of angles, lighting, sometimes even music. Peter Jackson and crew made something with visions I never thought of and approaches I couldn't have conceived because I was always filming an unedited version in head -- it was worth every edit, reduction or simplification, every one.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 December 2003 06:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone else notice how that one bossy orc totally looked like Sloth from The Goonies?

― Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 23 December 2003 06:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Scenes from the trailer that didn't make it in include Merry becoming a Rider and Eowyn's brother crying over Theoden(I am right in thinking that Eowyn is actually Theoden's daugher, right? They didn't mention it much in ROTK)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 23 December 2003 10:07 (twenty-two years ago)

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