Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

sometimes i call 911 when the cosby show comes on

i mean if you feel threatened you do not FOLLOW the person you are feeling threatened by. i think he may have thought that martin posed a "threat" (in terms of property theft) to his neighbors, but not a bodily threat to his person.

im actually a real lawyer itt

i'm using the word "threatened" a bit more broadly than you, amateurist. in the sense that you mean, i agree completely.

I'm pending bar admission. But I'm not giving legal advice, I'm just posting facebook profiles of the REAL TRAYVON

"i'm not a lawyer, but i do look like one..."

I'm just a simple country hyperchicken

hmm it's odd to me that the trayvon martin case seems to have disappeared from the NYT today

the fatigue of rage is despair

Going back into the criminal defense attorney headspace I actually used to occupy, this, if Zimmerman had been or ever is charged, is the kind of juicy case that you really want -- way easy to win, and easy to turn the focus onto the cops and the bad law. A good lawyer could win this one in a heartbeat and still sleep at night. Zimmerman's lawyer, however, is not acting like a criminal defense attorney but like a political lobbyist -- if that is what he is and he is correctly betting that no charges will be filed, it's good client advocacy (the real client not being Zimmerman but the NRA or some shit like that) that responsible citizens should NOT PAY ATTENTION TO.

how does the law in question construe "threat"? Is it in even explicit about this? does it validate force in response to the "threat" of property theft or --more likely i hope--limit the relevant "threat" to a threat of bodily harm?

i mean obviously i'm not sure either legitimately counts in this case but it might matter to a jury.

(i say it's illegitimate b/c we'd have to imagine that martin being young and black is enough to construe a threat of some kind, whether one of bodily harm or something else. bottom line is any law that encourages people to hurt other people is not a good law.)

you got a problem, homie?

WELL NOW YOU DO

Well, it's important to distinguish that the ridiculous law was not behind him calling the cops or stalking Trayvon. That crap law kicks in when it comes to the shooting, which wasn't done as a vigilante act but occurred (as far as any of us know) after they tussled. That is, as shoddy as I understand it to be, that Stand Your Ground law does not allow someone to stalk and shoot someone. Period. But it may be invoked to defend shooting someone after you feel "threatened," which in this case I guess specifically means after/during the fight. Which makes this less open and shut as it should be (that is, shooting an unarmed kid should always be manslaughter, but this case isn't that simple, though it should be).

if you guys loved me you'd stop using "Period" for emphasis -- it reminds me of every neanderthal conservative with whom I've ever tousled.

if you don't love me then don't worry about it.

Well, it's important to distinguish that the ridiculous law was not behind him calling the cops or stalking Trayvon.

idk a law that creates the kind of uncertainty you describe makes stalking someone with a gun, and putting yourself in a situation where shooting is more probable, seem less legally risky.

I will never do that again. Period.

oh dammit

Man, this Florida law is ten different kinds of fucked, though.

MIAMI -- A judge has dismissed a murder charge against a man who chased and fatally stabbed a suspected thief, citing the same self-defense law at the center of the Trayvon Martin case.

The "stand your ground" law gives a lot of leeway to use deadly force instead of retreating during a confrontation.

Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom ruled Tuesday that a bag of stolen car radios Pedro Roteta swung at Greyston Garcia amounted to a lethal threat. Bloom said Garcia "was well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property."

Garcia went home instead of calling 911 after the confrontation in January and later hid the knife and sold two of the radios.

holy shit

according to another article the guy chased him for 'more than a block' before stabbing him. jesus christ.

Is that judge trying to get the law thrown out? That is just madness to me.

Wow. You never, in any state, have the right to use deadly force to protect property. That has fuckall to do with "Stand Your Ground" and everything to do with lol Florida.

Aren't you allowed to shoot at people from your property in LOL Texas?

so basically in Florida anyone that wins a fight can take refuge in the law as long as the other guy dies

shit man in texas you can chase & shoot somebody for running off with your roommate's shit

y'all are welcome to visit Miami but don't pack hoodies

like I said in the other thread, can we get rid of states already

another crime prevented through stabbing.

In florida, as i recall, the stand your ground law allows deadly force in response to the "imminent commission of a forcible felony" or somesuch which is maybe a bigger deal than even the "duty to retreat" thing.

ABC News video features footage of Zimmerman from Sanford PD cameras the night of the shooting. He shows no signs of injury at all, not a spot of blood, and even if on-scene EMTs cleaned him up, there is no way that man has a broken nose.

Watched that. Can't see shit r: the guy's face.

I still want to know how long the girlfriend was on the phone while this went down. Obviously as long as the shooting, right? So he just kept her on the line?

(Not saying there's anything wrong with this, just weird that he didn't hang up on her)

CNN.com

wikipedia.org

inquiring minds want to know

re: gf phone call, have any of zimmerman's statements said trayvon was on the phone? I remember "hands in his waistband" etc, but iirc the call with the girlfriend was happening for quite awhile, not just after trayvon tried to duck Zimmerman, right? Makes me think zimmerman's accounts are not only inaccurate, but he may not be really that observant?

i can tell you how long she was on the phone but i charge $100/hr for internet research

Surely you could have provided a little pro bono tidbit there. Fuck a cnn.com. I get my news from ILX.

my understanding is that she last heard trayvon yelling DIE HONKIE DIE and then the phone went dead

tbf, I see homicide-inducing cell phone use all the time.

He appears well built, hardly the portly young man depicted in a 2005 mug shot

NYT: george zimmerman stalked trayvon martin like a fugitive slave, whites now legally allowed to kill blacks in florida w/o witnesses

guess they were winding up for the third party haymaker

During the beating, Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired one shot at close range into Martin's chest. "You got me," the teenager said, falling backward.

i'm fully and 100% in the the camp that Zimmerman is guilty and racist and needs to go to jail forever...

But I'm getting kind of creeped out by the confirmation bias traded around on the internet where blurry survellaince footage means an uninjured Zimmerman is jauntily skipping into jail; and *MFFFGHHHFGGFHHFGH *static*" means he's murmuring "fucking coons" to a 911 dispatcher; and the screams on the cell phone call couldn't possibly be Zimmerman

However,
i'm fully and 100% in the the camp that Zimmerman is guilty and racist and needs to go to jail forever...

and just so there's no confusion

i'm fully and 100% in the the camp that Zimmerman is guilty and racist and needs to go to jail forever...

Minutes after Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Then came the second encounter, according to Tracy Martin's recollection of the detective's account. Trayvon Martin appeared from behind a building in Zimmerman's gated community, approached him and demanded, "What's your problem, homie?"

When Zimmerman replied that he didn't have a problem, Martin said, "You do now." The unarmed teenager hit Zimmerman, knocked him to the ground, pinned him down and told him to "shut the [expletive] up."

During the beating, Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired one shot at close range into Martin's chest. "You got me," the teenager said, falling backward.

it really is just the most unbelievably corny line

WOW Whiney you defending this racist guy? Holy shit man...wow *smacks suggest ban and wanks off*

like bro, if you are going to such great lengths to fabricate a story maybe you should make martin say something a tiny bit more believable than "you got me"