2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

I never thought I'd be saying this, but I actually found this recent series of debates to be relatively substantive. This will be the sixth presidential election I've voted in and I don't recall any debates in the prior 20 years approaching this level of nuance.

Not that the bar has been set very high.

I read that as "approaching this level of menace."

I think they're probably better than they were the last two elections, which were the only ones in my lifetime where I was old enough to pay good attention. But yes, the bar is low.

Obama's a menace sponge. McCain will vanish into his Black Hole.

the last two debates were great, altho partly because obama's best performances were in both of them - less 'uhhh's and more substantive.

i really enjoy watching these tho i have no illusions about 'what they mean' or whether they in some way impact the person's ability to be a president.

Bragging about not paying attention to this shit is kinda corny to me

"ho ho I don't even watch TELEVISION"

McCain will vanish into (Obama's) Black Hole.

Sounds like the beginnings of a 527 ad, to me.

general election kinda startin already huh?

By LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press Writer
7 minutes ago

TYLER, Texas - Republican presidential hopeful John McCain mocked Democrat Barack Obama on Wednesday for saying he would take action as president "if al-Qaida is forming a base in Iraq."
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"When you examine that statement, it's pretty remarkable," McCain told a crowd in Tyler, Texas.

"I have some news. Al-Qaida is in Iraq. It's called `al-Qaida in Iraq,'" McCain said, drawing laughter at Obama's expense.

Obama quickly answered back, telling a rally at Ohio State University in Columbus, "I do know that al-Qaida is in Iraq."

"So I have some news for John McCain," he added, saying there was no al-Qaida presence in Iraq until President Bush invaded the country.

Noting that McCain likes to tell audiences that he'd follow Osama bin Laden to the "gates of hell" to catch him, Obama taunted: "All he (McCain) has done is to follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq."

This will be the ultimate *zing!* election, won't it?

Noting that McCain likes to tell audiences that he'd follow Osama bin Laden to the "gates of hell" to catch him, Obama taunted: "All he (McCain) has done is to follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq."

NICE

Yeah. This is why I think Obama will do well against the worst GOP attacks (e.g., he's a secret Muslim, an Islamofacsist, unpatriotic), and certainly better against those attacks than some recent losing Democratic Presidential nominees(e.g., Kerry, Mondale and Dukakis). He isn't passive. He'll fight back. I was worried about this earlier in the primary cycle, when he seemed soft in his approach to HRC when he was behind. But, it turns out I think, that he was, in fact, letting John Edwards hammer away at her for him. Now that he's got her in a one-on-one setting, he's able to deflect, absorb and turn-around attacks on him in a savvy way.

Give it up Hillary

haha McCain is ahead on the economy. that'll change fast in a GE w/ Obama.

so will the war issue

i can't really imagine mccain being ahead on any issues except nat'l security once the GE gets rolling.

McCain can't keep from sticking his foot in his mouth about nat'l security - he's already done it TWICE! - and Obama will nail him on it. He voted for a stupid war, and continues to say it was a good idea. He hasn't caught Bin Laden. He, quite despicably, caved in on torturing detainees. McCain's got nothing.

hey look we killed some Al Qaeda people in Pakistan, just like Obama was talking about

health care is a pretty stark division between the parties too

I don't know the ins and outs of mccain's position but I imagine it'll be something like "it's socialism" or "we can't afford it" .... leaving him as simply being "against change" (and by now I think most ppl want the health system changed) as Obama (or Hillary) talks about "here's how we get this done"

i was a little disappointed to hear obama refer to the assassinated al-qaaeda leader as their third in command - lol most dangerous job in the world

McCain's got nothing

except the precedent of 42 white men. Don't underestimate it.

I meant nothing in regards to nat'l security. Obviously he's got the Great White Patriarchy vote sewed up.

McCain doesn't want to be the next Bush

except the precedent of 42 white men. Don't underestimate it.

how many were taller than him?

is there something wrong with McCain's hands? He seems to do the Bob-Dole-Grips-A-Pen thing a lot.

I'm not positive, Shakey, but I think his hand and arm problems are a result of his time as a POW.

Yes, broke his arms when his plane crashed just before he was taken prisoner. Can't raise his arms above his head anymore.

Oh, but maybe that's how he voted for the war?

"Hands up everyone who doesn't want to invade Iraq?"

(it's pretty incredible that they have the picture next to this by the way)

It is. You're going to see those pictures blasted across the nation through the GE, I think, to underscore the point: WAR HERO.

And he is.

albeit in a war that had zip to do with "fighting for America."

"remember that last pointless war that wasted thousands of American lives and billions of dollars? no, the other one..."

Yes, Dr. M, in spite of that.

Oy vey. More of this to come all through November, I'm sure.

I respect the hell out of McCain. But would never vote for him, ever.

He also compared Obama to the founder of Islam, remarking that both had a white mother and black father, according to the Associated Press.

im pretty sure farrakhan was talking about the founder of the NATION of islam

but... Obama already "denounced and rejected" Farrakhan on nat'l television just last night.

(Also, Farrakhan not cool obviously but CIA DID push crack into the inner cities. fact)

obama aint lying that hes got extensive jewish support in IL

I respect McCain except for all the crooked shit he pulls/pulled-- keating, the loan collateral, shady deals for companies his wife is on the board of, cozy with lobbyists, etc

I used to respect him but I snapped out of it in the last few years of watching him kiss bush's ass

I respect the fact he could have gone home from 'Nam right after he was captured, but refused to do so unless the POWs who were captured before him. I also said I wouldn't vote for him, partially for the reasons you just listed.

I actually have cast a vote for mccain .... 2000 gop primary in virginia (open primary, you can jump in on either side .... thought it would be worth it to try and derail bush. didn't happen)

I used to respect him but I snapped out of it in the last few years of watching him kiss bush's ass.

I've lost a lot of respect for him over this. But that doesn't negate the tremendous respect I have for him from his experience in Vietnam.

I just disagree with him on many key policy issues and I wouldn't vote for him.

http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/508196.html

^^^^^on obama's improved debate performance

Nicely put, this. ( "By threatening to throw the kitchen sink at Obama, the Clinton campaign simply confirmed the fact that they might be going down the drain. // Beating on the press is the lamest thing you can do. It is only because of the utter open-mindedness of the press that Hillary can lose 11 contests in a row and still be treated as a contender." )

I don't see why we should respect him MORE because he served in Vietnam, Daniel. The dastardly things he's committed as a senator aren't mitigated by his military service.

I obviously don't disrespect his war service, I just stopped kidding myself that as a politician he was any more than a marginal improvement over whatever typical gop hack you wanna name (xposts)

I didn't mean to say otherwise, Alfred. And you can look at that in reverse: The dastardly things McCain's done as a Senator don't mitigate his military service.

I'm sorry. Guess I reflexively gag when a hack extols someone as an "American hero."

Did you see the Wiki picture of him, being fished out of the water in Vietnam, about to be taken as a POW? I don't like McCain, but he deserves tremendous respect for what he went through.

Guess I reflexively gag when a hack extols someone as an "American hero."

Haha. It just dawned on me that I'm the hack. True enough, I guess.