Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

this is precisely what's wrong with Stand Your Ground. George Will of all people got this right yesterday morning:

ABC’s George Will called the “Stand Your Ground” law a “bad idea” because it “confers upon citizens the illusion at least that they have something like powers exercised by highly trained police officers.”

“[The law] tries to codify a right of self-defense,” Will said. “Mr. Zimmerman says he was acting under this self-defense law, but he is said to have been recorded saying that he was in pursuit of the person. You cannot be in pursuit and acting in self-defense.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/donna-brazile-george-will-question-stand-your-ground-law/

stopped clock etc

also whoever posted that lowendtheory piece upthread (above the fold) was otm

― catbus otm (gbx), Monday, March 26, 2012 6:42 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that was me. i don't necessarily agree w/ the abolitionist view this article is (implicitly?) taking but it still makes a ton of great points.

tbh if you just called the cops on me for 10 minutes and told them everything from the fact that something is wrong with me or I'm on drugs or insinuated I'm reaching for a weapon simply cuz I'm black and you're fixated on me to the point of making me uncomfortable, I might, MIGHT, MIGHT JUST PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE.

and y'know what? doesn't really support the shooting still. especially when the dude weighs 110 more pounds (and lol now there's dudes suggesting the media is lying about Trayvon's weight even tho the pics clearly show the dude was thin as fuck...omg he's 6'2, guess what, I was 6'0 and weighed 135 in high school and couldn't kick nobody's ass).

The thing is, Zimmermann's team and the slew of Zimmermann apologists are garnering power by doing the same thing that Dubya did during the Iraq War: getting everyone to fixate so much on the equation that they don't bother to consider the solution to the formula. IE, they want everyone to believe that if Trayvon laid a finger on Zimmermann, that this immediately revokes his innocence, this is no longer a tragedy, and it was clearly self-defense.

And yet, I can think of about a million scenarios that could have unfolded, and yet in my mind, only ONE that would have legtimized the shooting. And sadly, that one is already refuted by the audio. If Trayvon had approached Zimmermann, jumped him from behind, and made a movement like he was going for a weapon all unprovoked, maybe, just maybe i'd consider it justified.

But right now, the reality seems more like if Trayvon committed any act of violence at all, it was probably because HE felt like HE was in danger, and it was instigated by Zimmermann's Travis Bickle fucking behavior.

Who in here hasn't gotten in a fist fight in their life? How many of you were shot during it?

Zimmermann so strongly believed that Trayvon was a threat in his deluded mind that he gamed the situation to one where he forced Trayvon to act out, then via self-fulfilling prophecy, became the 'hero' in his own mind. He's the fucking lead character from Observe and Report.

And we have white people talking about how it's ok cuz Trayvon mighta scuffed up his Chuck Taylors and gave him a few little scrapes?

FUCK THIS SHIT.

just an unbelievably stupid law. pretty sure the kids in lord of the flies did better then these people.

additionally crazy is the fact that if i were say a criminal i could try to leverage this law to my advantage: arrange a situation in which a guy i want dead for w/e reason can be killed either because he provoked me (also arranged) or where there were no eyewitnesses. in the latter case, you just leave the body where it is, call the cops, tell them it was self-defense, and they don't arrest you. in florida.

totally. All you have to do is lay the groundwork, watch it unfold, shoot, and boom, mission accomplished.

yeah this law is a big gift to dateline nbc's next season.

I think when I eventually decide to move out of FL I'm going to dress up in a Mickey Mouse costume and shoot up Disney World

yeah this law is a big gift to dateline nbc's next season.

i was thinking the same thing. someone needs to set a reality show in florida. contestants will be scored on their ability to provoke "threatening" responses from unwary strangers, whom they must then kill. just think of the ratings, and it's all perfectly legal!

I mean if I'd known Uncle Jimbo's "They're coming right for us!" was a strategy and not just a comic one-liner....

look out mama there's a white boat comin up the river

now Zimm is saying Trayvon went for his gun. I'm too weary to parse any more of this right now...

fictionalise your ground

you can always tell a bully by the speed of their transition from villain to victim.

truth bomb x30000000000

additionally crazy is the fact that if i were say a criminal i could try to leverage this law to my advantage: arrange a situation in which a guy i want dead for w/e reason can be killed either because he provoked me (also arranged) or where there were no eyewitnesses. in the latter case, you just leave the body where it is, call the cops, tell them it was self-defense, and they don't arrest you. in florida.

― catbus otm (gbx), Monday, March 26, 2012 7:57 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

I think that gangs in florida have used the law in this way before, iirc? not sure

it's otherwise known as "Saturday Night"

I do not and never did miss florida after I left.

it's otherwise known as "Saturday Night"

when no one hits on me I hit him back.

Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow then began hammering his head.

This punch allegedly happened at 9:00 pm on 3/26/2012...

...in teh mind of a delusional fuckwit

If all of this had taken place in Zimmerman's yard, he might have had a leg to stand on. It did not, so he does not. PERIOD.

Latest from The Miami Herald:

The Miami Gardens teen who has become a national symbol of racial injustice was suspended three times, and had a spotty school record that his family’s attorneys say is irrelevant to the facts that led up to his being gunned down on Feb. 26.

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.” The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.

Instead the officer reported he found women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a “burglary tool,” according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald. Word of the incident came as the family’s lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called “irrelevant” and an attempt to demonize a victim.

Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” he responded, according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.

Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.

A lawyer for the dead teen’s family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but said the family knew nothing about the jewelry and the screwdriver.

“It’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26,” said attorney Benjamin Crump. “They never heard this, and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”

I mean, if he'd kept following Trayvon, is there any point when it might've been a more dubious cry of self-defense? Like, if he'd followed him onto his porch? Into his bedroom? Where does it fucking end?

why do I have a feeling is the end result of this is Zimmermann remaining a free man and the parents having whatever dignity they had left drug through teh mud....

trayvon threatened him by being black

“It’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26”

otm

i wasn't exactly a delinquent growing up and I did things equally as bad as what was described in that first article re: Trayvon. I liked destroying school property for one.

i mean next they'll suggest that he SNUCK INTO AN R- RATED MOVIE BEFORE HE AWS 17

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, Trayvon had actually been on his way to rob someone's house. In what world (I know, Florida) is that an excuse for an uninvolved party to shoot him to death?

zimmerframe

imagine if it was your jewelry and bag of weed he stole

wheres yr liberal outrage now

WTF this is turning into a fucking trial by media before anyone's even arrested. This is outrageous.

^

yah poor Zimmerman

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, Trayvon had actually been on his way to rob someone's house. In what world (I know, Florida) is that an excuse for an uninvolved party to shoot him to death?

― Mary Steamvirgin (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, March 26, 2012 8:46 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this. if zimmerman's life is not in immediate danger, he should not be able to claim self-defense.

that would include if he had some guy who actually robbed his house and then ran away when he heard zimmerman coming down the stairs.

trial by media before anyone's even arrested

I hope you were being sarcastic VG.

The kid was shot and killed. No one was arrested. The parents were being denied any chance for a trial in the case. Taking their case to the media was the only alternative the parents had to seek justice, and if it weren't for this "media trial" there might never be a trial of any kind. At least now there will be a real investigation.

If the police had done their job correctly, none of this would have been needed.

Uh, I said that, not VG, and I was serious, thanks very much, and I meant there is now NO chance of the kid getting any justice because the whole thing has had any chance of proper proceeding be corrupted out the wazoo. I dont give 2 shits if Zimmerman rots in jail all his life. I should hope it was obvious I wasnt asking for HIM to have a fair trial, good lord.

trial by ILX before anyone's even suggest bannedflag-posted

hm yeah he can still have a fair trial actually xp

fair trial more like fair game amirite

ABC’s George Will called the “Stand Your Ground” law a “bad idea” because it “confers upon citizens the illusion at least that they have something like powers exercised by highly trained police officers."

highly trained police officers?

WU, et al. v. CITY OF ROHNERT PARK, et al. 3:98-CV-00387-TEH: An Asian man holding a broom stick was shot and killed by Rohnert Park Police. Officers said he held the stick in a "martial arts" fashion. This was a highly publicized case in the Asian community. Case settled $1 million

there's also a case where an old guy shoots a young asian dude because he believes all asian people have martial arts skills (the guy survives, though)

The Miami Gardens teen who has become a national symbol of racial injustice was suspended three times, and had a spotty school record that his family’s attorneys say is irrelevant to the facts that led up to his being gunned down on Feb. 26.

fuck the miami herald. that bullshit IS legally irrelevant, and that's not an opinion that needs to be attributed to anyone. it's just simple fact. they're fucking scumbags for even reporting this shit.

miami herald article just came out: Trayvon was a known burglar and drug dealer at school with a history of anti social aggressive behavior

i'm just going to turn my back on humanity for the next six months

http://savingtherepublic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trayvon-recent-thug-zimmerman.jpg

^^ don't click if you just ate dinner