ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

Q: Where does the usage of the word "cycle" to mean "series of works that go together" come from, as in Wagner's Ring Cycle? And is it appropriately used with works that, unlike Opera, are not performed? For example, the novels I'm reading right now are referred to on their book jacket as the "Patrick Melrose Cycle" and I thought that seemed odd. So then I thought maybe performative works are a "cycle" because they can be performed again, whereas there's nothing "cyclical" about novels. But maybe that's just some bullshit I made up.

IIRC "cycle" was coined by America's Next Top Model.

It's 'cycle' as complete set - like a circle that encompasses everything. I'm now going to paste the OED entry, which will be a bit dense, but has the info:

6.I.6 spec. A series of poems or prose romances, collected round or relating to a central event or epoch of mythic history and forming a continuous narrative; as the Arthurian cycle. Also transf.
Originally used in the Epic cycle [Gr. ὁ (ἐπικὸς) κύκλος], the series of epic poems written by later poets (Cyclic poets) to complete Homer, and presenting (with the Iliad and Odyssey) a continuous history of the Trojan war and of all the heroes engaged in it.

1835 Thirlwall Greece I. vi. 248 They‥formed the basis or nucleus of the epic cycle. 1837 Penny Cycl. IX. 470/1 Those cycles of metrical romances which have for their subjects the exploits of Alexander the Great, King Arthur, and other heroes. 1870 Swinburne Ess. & Stud. (1875) 66 The marvellous opening cycle of twenty-eight sonnets. 1873 H. Morley First Sk. Eng. Lit. 61 The cycle of the Charlemagne romances‥those of the Arthurian cycle. 1874 H. R. Reynolds John Bapt. i. §6. 56 The mythopoeic faculty has not engendered a cycle of miracles around the simple story.

shorter OED (those dense fucks), it's called a CYCLE bcz the stories or poems or whatever REVOLVE round a central figure/event

which i didn't know till about ten minutes ago

"I find it amazing the way these social networks run and people do what they do on them. They're talking to a bunch of Herberts they don't even know, and they are opening themselves up to these Herberts. For me, it is beyond my common sense to do that."

lads whats the protocol on capitalising herberts

the hell is a Herbert?

if it's a number of people named Herbert, I'm p sure you capitalise it.

maybe it's like the opposite of a betty

If it's like what Merdyeux says, yeah, capitalize it. Thirty Helens agree.

Yes. Capitalize Herberts.

Is it like "herb," as in "look at this fucking herb wearing waders and boat shoes"

maybe it's like the opposite of a betty

― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:39 (34 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, kinda. do bettys get capped?

I wouldn't capitalise herbert, but that's probably my employer's aversion to capitalisation talking (we don't capitalise yorkshire pudding either)

The word herbert is often preceded by "spotty"

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/37663/what-is-the-meaning-of-the-term-herbert-in-british-slang

(scroll down to the slang dictionary definitions)

mm, i wouldnt either myself but it looks unprofessional uncapped and too stiff capped so idk

sadly i suppose no publication would accept the rightful spelling of 'erbert

Eh. Herbert is a slang term in this case, with the proper name serving as a generic indicator of type?

Then do not capitalize. But also realize that slang is only appropriate for an audience that will instantly recognize it as slang. iow, non-Brits will be head scratching. At least, by lowercasing it, you will be giving them a vital clue about useage.

yeah, it looks weird capped. John, as in someone who frequents a prostitute, would not be capped, right? idk if herbert has penetrated British slang to that extent though. I do know my mom says this all the time.

Oxford dictionary site has it lower case:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/herbert?q=herbert

sorry to mislead aimless, i'd just read that quote and was wondering aloud rather than me being in the process of writing something

and yeah, john is another example

btw americans, did you not see this illuminating usage example on alba's link?

T. Barling: A dozen baby-brained herberts looking to face me off just to say they squared up to Kosher Kramer before the cobbles came up a bit smartish. (1986)

If it's slang, then it can be lowercase. (john, betty, sheila)

But if it's named after a proper individual (I've got the Benjamins), then capitalize it.

yeah - "a right bunch of herberts".

can anyone translate that xpost

face me off and squared up to = challenge to a fight
Kosher Kramer = presumably the narrator
before the cobbles came up a bit smartish = before they hit the ground

(smartish = quickly)

restaurant i'm starting at tomorrow just revealed new signage advertising a "prefix special"

*slaps forehead*

Maybe customers that have the same telephone prefix as the restaurant get a discount.

anyone with an O' or De or Mc or La or even de la in their surname gets a discount?

discounted prices on anti-pasta

surname or first name, let's be generous

And you're starting there tomorrow...this is a huge dilemma! Will you be the new-guy know-it-all who just needs to be hammered down to the same height like all the other nails, or say nothing and be vaguely embarrassed by your employer every time you see the sign?

xp Double discount for LaShonda O'Malley.

eh, i'll just cringe a little. i'll live.

"Hi! Mega-welcome to <REDACTED>! Can I take your overcoat? It will just be a 5 minute mini-wait for your table."

I don't understand. What are they trying to say a prefix special is?

'prix fixe'

oh duh.

I thought of them serving the customer food before it's been fixed and then went, "wait a minute. I don't even think Yankees 'fix' food anyway."

hungover brain blank. which is correct, "hit-or-miss" or "hit-and-miss"? the former, right?

I've always said hit-and-miss. It's not about saying something's a one-time hit or miss, but that it's patchy, no?

oh whoops i put it through as the former. oh well!

I've always said "hit-or-miss" -- to my mind that conveys "sometimes hits, sometimes misses" better than "hit-and-miss," which sounds vaguely paradoxical even though I know what it's trying to convey.

i'd use 'hit or miss' as a predictor of a one-off event, and 'hit and miss' to review a body/collection/whatever, kinda slightly different things?

the former

AND

In a situation where there is but one opportunity to hit, then hit-or-miss would appear to be most appropriate. Where there are many opportunities, but no certainty about any single result, then hit-and-miss would seem more applicable.

I always thought it was hit-or-miss. Altman was very hit-or-miss in the '70s; some great films, some wild misfires. If it were a perfectly alternating pattern--great one always followed by a misfire--I guess hit-and-miss would work.

Collins gives both:

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/hit-and-miss

My old NYT boss on the death (and/or dearth) of copy editing: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/opinion/perlman-romney-needs-editor/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120601011023-perlman-cnn-horizontal-gallery.jpg

this is the greatest