here's a dirty little secret: i never liked the lotr gollum design, looked nothing like what I thought he should be
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:24 (twelve years ago) link
just to head off another 40 posts of people missing the point, the problem isn't people getting irritated at characters in a movie based on a book not looking like how they imagined them (because this will happen in every movie based on a book) but people thinking that a character being black when they didn't expect them to be black ruined the movie because they are huge racists
― future worm food (n/a), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:26 (twelve years ago) link
oh well in that case fuck em
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:26 (twelve years ago) link
it is weird that anyone would care what color the characters would be in a fiction adaptation in any case
not very weird that readers project their own race onto (sparely described) characters as a means of identifying w/ them, i guess? but it is sad and stupid that race is a commonly accepted shorthand for character types / traits. america, fwiw.
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:28 (twelve years ago) link
america, fwiw.
not much, apparently
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:33 (twelve years ago) link
article drops a nice spoiler btw
― bnw, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:35 (twelve years ago) link
just to head off another 40 posts of people missing the point
No no this is shocking, I was totally unaware that was what was going on here.
xpost - except maybe forks and elmo are actually unaware? - it's not that people project their race onto generic fictional characters which sucks but is probably not going anywhere any time soon, it's the twin poles of "I overlooked that Thresh was black" and "I really liked Cinna so he can't be black", and especially their intersection in "But Rue is supposed to be nice and good and so I will ignore and indeed agrily deny that she's explicitly not white in the book"
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
that's basically what elmo is saying
― future worm food (n/a), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:52 (twelve years ago) link
as i read him anyways
not to be faux naive but the idea of somebody rejecting a fictional character based on their skin color is just too ludicrous for me to take seriously
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:52 (twelve years ago) link
this would all be easier if we could see their birth certificates
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:54 (twelve years ago) link
american teens betrayed, deceived, tricked into caring about fictional black people
I think this nails it. It's not the projection, it's the rage and betrayal. It's fucking awful, really.
― carl agatha, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:55 (twelve years ago) link
All these people are basically saying is that they can't identify with -- or sympathize with or be emotionally involved with -- a black character like they could with a white character -- even when they are the SAME fucking character portrayed in two different media. I think that's pretty racist.
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Monday, 26 March 2012 22:08 (twelve years ago) link
i mean, putting aside that they willfully disregarded the description of the character's race to begin with
― i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Monday, 26 March 2012 22:12 (twelve years ago) link
Even if these are like 12-14 year olds tweeting this shit, that's a fine age at which to be horrifically shamed about saying asshole racist stuff.
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Monday, 26 March 2012 22:12 (twelve years ago) link
OTM. even absent any overt rage at the betrayal, an awful lot of people seem to be saying that they're outright incapable of caring about or feeling sympathy for a black character. maybe i'm naive, but that's shocking to me.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 22:13 (twelve years ago) link
if you must read ahead, read the wiki summaries of the books
this is insane
― Number None, Monday, 26 March 2012 22:44 (twelve years ago) link
I don't know about that. Kids of that age committing crimes would be granted some sort of anonymity, usually, it seems a bit off to be shaming them nationally for this when it would be easy enough to blank out their names.
My objection isn't so much their age, though, it's the inherent confirmation bias involved in scouring Twitter for objectionable material and then writing it up as a news story. It doesn't matter if it's "actress + racial epithet", "i'd let Chris Brown beat me" or "Muamba + LOL", or whatever, you're going to uncover some nasty people saying nasty things whatever you go looking for. It's horrible and depressing but doesn't, in itself, demonstrate much about society.
The earlier stories about Hunger Games communities online being split over the casting had more to go on than simply reproducing the tweets of random idiots.
― Une semaine de Bunty (ShariVari), Monday, 26 March 2012 22:55 (twelve years ago) link
at some point confirmation bias is overwhelmed by, well, confirmation
we have probably reached that point with this
― catbus otm (gbx), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
Possibly, but i'm not sure there's much of a sense of that from the article. The difficulty with this approach is that it's impossible to tell how widespread a viewpoint the individuals are representing. The film has got great reviews, took tonnes of money and the stars have been widely praised in the fan communities. How many racist idiots does it take to tip the balance towards it having a negative reception?
― Une semaine de Bunty (ShariVari), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:12 (twelve years ago) link
that's a fair question, but in this case i think it's appropriate to draw attention to the blatant racism, regardless of how many or how few people are promoting it
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
Absolutely. The casting, and the (frequently racist) reaction to it, is definitely something that needed to be discussed. I think it was pretty well analysed before the film was released, though, and i'm not sure what this particular article adds.
― Une semaine de Bunty (ShariVari), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:21 (twelve years ago) link
i think the point is that it is p much always worthwhile to call attention to how casually racism has been adopted by horrible youth?
like ok i guess an article pointing out that some idiots on twitter are racist is obvious or subject to confirmation bias (btw who cares) but that's ok because the problem with the world isn't that there are too many articles about racists, it's that there are fucking racists
― catbus otm (gbx), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
like, you say that the casting and reaction to it was "something that needed to be discussed" as it is now an issue that has been covered, accounted for, sorted. that might make sense if it was the casting of a dumb movie that was the actual issue---it wasn't, and the real problem is extant and ongoing.
― catbus otm (gbx), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:35 (twelve years ago) link
xp i have learnt recently that despite the truism that the book is always better than the movie, this is actually not always the case. cf game of thrones.
this is wackily wrong, i never understand the sentiment. it only makes sense when you're limiting yourself to remember the classic novel adaptations and not like, 80% of adaptations that make a decent movie out of a forgettable book or story (the godfather! gone with the wind! shawshank redemption? l.a. confidential? etc)
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 01:59 (twelve years ago) link
anyway back to racism
exactly - for example, seeing Ford Prefect portrayed by Mos Def was kind of a shock, since I remembered the book describing him as a tall, proper Englishman, sort of the antithesis of cool
obviously it all matters very little, though I do think the Asian community complaining about the movie 21 had a point, since in that case their ethnicity actually did matter in the story
― Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Monday, March 26, 2012 5:15 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think this is silly too; it does matter. even if thresh and rue were written in the novels as white, people still wouldn't have a right to complain about casting them black. whitewashing happens all the gd time and there are already much fewer roles available to POC (and those roles are typically stereotypical/one-dimensional). reversing the trend isn't a bad thing. and adding mos def to a movie is always a good idea (i hope i'm not the lone be kind rewind fan here).
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:04 (twelve years ago) link
LA Confidential book is sweaty thrillride, movie is a damp piece of shit
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:12 (twelve years ago) link
in this weird case, mos def's american imperialism dominates, like if will smith was cast as james bond.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:16 (twelve years ago) link
actually, is mos def canadian?
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:17 (twelve years ago) link
no
― Mumblr tights (symsymsym), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:18 (twelve years ago) link
twitter definitely makes it easier to document racist reactions.
― Mumblr tights (symsymsym), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:20 (twelve years ago) link
pity. canadian/australian usurping of brit roles would be acceptable.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:21 (twelve years ago) link
i love the l.a. confidential movie but the point is ppl don't realize there are a lot of good book-to-film adaptations simply because they don't realize how many movies are based on books
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:21 (twelve years ago) link
russell crowe & guy pearce also do very good non-american performances in it.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:26 (twelve years ago) link
giggling a bit at the idea of canadian mos def tbh
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:31 (twelve years ago) link
mos dehf
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:32 (twelve years ago) link
There it is.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:33 (twelve years ago) link
kudos
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:34 (twelve years ago) link
the point is ppl don't realize there are a lot of good book-to-film adaptations simply because they don't realize how many movies are based on books
the point is LA Conf is a signal example of a packed, bustling book being made into a dull, dumb movie, you pwned yourself
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:36 (twelve years ago) link
Now this is an oddly timed subject: Lady on the flight next to me into boston here was reading LA Conf the entire way.
(I, on the other hand, finished a collection of Batman Confidential reprints)
Quite exciting, I know
― Spleen of Hearts (kingfish), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 03:59 (twelve years ago) link
Also, Whilce Portacio's art hasn't exactly improved over the years
― Spleen of Hearts (kingfish), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:00 (twelve years ago) link
white jazz should be a movie but its totally unfilmable
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:01 (twelve years ago) link
God its been a loooooooooong time since I came across the name 'Whilce Portacio'
― dies irate (loves laboured breathing), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:04 (twelve years ago) link
say it quickly and it's like laughing
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:06 (twelve years ago) link
didn't he go back to the Philippines for like 10 years and become a dentist?
― Nhex, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:07 (twelve years ago) link
xp I'm not sure I know how to pronounce it correctly!
― dies irate (loves laboured breathing), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:08 (twelve years ago) link
Lenny Kravitz is v. v. pretty
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:12 (twelve years ago) link
kind of can't believe there are straight women who aren't attracted to him, he should break through all kinds of anti-black and anti-Jewish bigotry
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:15 (twelve years ago) link
like "whyce" iirc
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:21 (twelve years ago) link
not in my experience! one of my fav 90s movies precisely because i can never stop watching it once it comes on cable. (dumb maybe, but not dull.) it's also very pretty.
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 05:37 (twelve years ago) link