2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

Sunny said that Russert looks like an Aussie.

I'm perfectly willing to concede that 90% of my interest is for the histrionics.

i do have to admit that I think Hillary is more impressive when she talks about foreign policy, Obama often comes across as a little hesitant. I mean I voted for him and support him but I think she talks that talk a lot better than he does. I think he needs to work on this a bit before the GE (duh obviously he will)

Russert went to my alma mater. /max

hillary is a better debater, period. the parts where she gets tripped up are where the facts just aren't on her side, ie any discussion of the Iraq war or the back and forth last night over NAFTA. other than that she's usually really solid. (except for the attempted SNL zing which was axtremely dumb.)

the idea that listening to the candidates actually talk about their views -- rather than hearing them filtered through press/pundits -- is a distraction is tenuous at best

Position papers, speeches, voting records -- even, if you like, debate transcripts -- these are things all readily available for research and review. Words as well as actions can be accessed very easily, especially now, and you'll forgive me if I prefer to do so that way, at my own pace and in my own preferred way, rather than televised debates.

AXTREME. extremely (xpost to myself)

aside from sounding like whining, does she think we switch medias for the general election? you have to live w/ these people. running against the media seems like a terrible strategy all around and I don't think most voters give a shit.

I realized last night that what I don't like about her is that she's too sarcastic and comes across as patronizing. maybe that's what everyone doesn't like about her, I dunno, but it took me until last night to realize this.

dont forget abt the plastered on smile! (srsly so strange)

I can see the debates being of some value (tho not face value) if I hadn't already made up my mind and voted in a primary, but I have.

there's an argument to be made over the importance of one's televised persona, but I am too lazy to make it.

There's an argument to be made for it, but I think it's safe to say that our present political system overemphasizes it.

I think a better argument to be made is that DEBATING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JOB OF BEING PRESIDENT. Televised persona is infinitely more important to the "job" of being president than any kind of spirited mediated arguing and nitpicking.

Yeah, D5's putting it better than I could, and separating out the key point for me.

Oh and those grapes? I bet they were sour, anyway.

Amazing!

I think an even better argument is that presidential debates aren't real debates. They're just opportunities to land punchlines. OMG Hillary says she doesn't like NAFTA but before she said she wanted to marry it! A real debate might require candidates address what NAFTA is in depth and why it's important and place it in the larger context of free trade. Also not ask candidates about shit that presidents don't even have any control over, like whether illegal immigrants get drivers' licenses.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but it's obvious stuff like that that tends to get lost in political silly season.

I never thought I'd be saying this, but I actually found this recent series of debates to be relatively substantive. This will be the sixth presidential election I've voted in and I don't recall any debates in the prior 20 years approaching this level of nuance.

Not that the bar has been set very high.

I read that as "approaching this level of menace."

I think they're probably better than they were the last two elections, which were the only ones in my lifetime where I was old enough to pay good attention. But yes, the bar is low.

Obama's a menace sponge. McCain will vanish into his Black Hole.

the last two debates were great, altho partly because obama's best performances were in both of them - less 'uhhh's and more substantive.

i really enjoy watching these tho i have no illusions about 'what they mean' or whether they in some way impact the person's ability to be a president.

Bragging about not paying attention to this shit is kinda corny to me

"ho ho I don't even watch TELEVISION"

McCain will vanish into (Obama's) Black Hole.

Sounds like the beginnings of a 527 ad, to me.

general election kinda startin already huh?

By LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press Writer
7 minutes ago

TYLER, Texas - Republican presidential hopeful John McCain mocked Democrat Barack Obama on Wednesday for saying he would take action as president "if al-Qaida is forming a base in Iraq."
ADVERTISEMENT

"When you examine that statement, it's pretty remarkable," McCain told a crowd in Tyler, Texas.

"I have some news. Al-Qaida is in Iraq. It's called `al-Qaida in Iraq,'" McCain said, drawing laughter at Obama's expense.

Obama quickly answered back, telling a rally at Ohio State University in Columbus, "I do know that al-Qaida is in Iraq."

"So I have some news for John McCain," he added, saying there was no al-Qaida presence in Iraq until President Bush invaded the country.

Noting that McCain likes to tell audiences that he'd follow Osama bin Laden to the "gates of hell" to catch him, Obama taunted: "All he (McCain) has done is to follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq."

This will be the ultimate *zing!* election, won't it?

Noting that McCain likes to tell audiences that he'd follow Osama bin Laden to the "gates of hell" to catch him, Obama taunted: "All he (McCain) has done is to follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq."

NICE

Yeah. This is why I think Obama will do well against the worst GOP attacks (e.g., he's a secret Muslim, an Islamofacsist, unpatriotic), and certainly better against those attacks than some recent losing Democratic Presidential nominees(e.g., Kerry, Mondale and Dukakis). He isn't passive. He'll fight back. I was worried about this earlier in the primary cycle, when he seemed soft in his approach to HRC when he was behind. But, it turns out I think, that he was, in fact, letting John Edwards hammer away at her for him. Now that he's got her in a one-on-one setting, he's able to deflect, absorb and turn-around attacks on him in a savvy way.

Give it up Hillary

haha McCain is ahead on the economy. that'll change fast in a GE w/ Obama.

so will the war issue

i can't really imagine mccain being ahead on any issues except nat'l security once the GE gets rolling.

McCain can't keep from sticking his foot in his mouth about nat'l security - he's already done it TWICE! - and Obama will nail him on it. He voted for a stupid war, and continues to say it was a good idea. He hasn't caught Bin Laden. He, quite despicably, caved in on torturing detainees. McCain's got nothing.

hey look we killed some Al Qaeda people in Pakistan, just like Obama was talking about

health care is a pretty stark division between the parties too

I don't know the ins and outs of mccain's position but I imagine it'll be something like "it's socialism" or "we can't afford it" .... leaving him as simply being "against change" (and by now I think most ppl want the health system changed) as Obama (or Hillary) talks about "here's how we get this done"

i was a little disappointed to hear obama refer to the assassinated al-qaaeda leader as their third in command - lol most dangerous job in the world

McCain's got nothing

except the precedent of 42 white men. Don't underestimate it.

I meant nothing in regards to nat'l security. Obviously he's got the Great White Patriarchy vote sewed up.

McCain doesn't want to be the next Bush

except the precedent of 42 white men. Don't underestimate it.

how many were taller than him?

is there something wrong with McCain's hands? He seems to do the Bob-Dole-Grips-A-Pen thing a lot.

I'm not positive, Shakey, but I think his hand and arm problems are a result of his time as a POW.

Yes, broke his arms when his plane crashed just before he was taken prisoner. Can't raise his arms above his head anymore.

Oh, but maybe that's how he voted for the war?

"Hands up everyone who doesn't want to invade Iraq?"

(it's pretty incredible that they have the picture next to this by the way)

It is. You're going to see those pictures blasted across the nation through the GE, I think, to underscore the point: WAR HERO.

And he is.

albeit in a war that had zip to do with "fighting for America."

"remember that last pointless war that wasted thousands of American lives and billions of dollars? no, the other one..."

Yes, Dr. M, in spite of that.