46 911 calls in the last year or since January 1? Repots conflict. Either way, odds are pretty good that Zimmerman made more than a few of those calls INSIDE A GODDAMN GATED COMMUNITY and is too off-center to realize the irony.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:56 (twelve years ago) link
(And of course -- great work, Max.)
― Andy K, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 18:57 (twelve years ago) link
max, the voice in yr. piece reminds me of a junot diaz short story. intentional?
― s.clover, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:00 (twelve years ago) link
not really, though i am a fan.
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:02 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007/06/11/070611on_audio_danticat
― s.clover, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:07 (twelve years ago) link
ha! yeah, i totally see that. this was initially going to be a bit more bloggy "how to" but it needed to be angry instead of sarcastic
― max, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:14 (twelve years ago) link
wondering what % of those calls were irt the troubling presence of black youth
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:23 (twelve years ago) link
on CNN this morning, they were making a big point of the fact (?) that it was 46 calls since 2001; i.e., over an 11-year period. not sure what to believe at this point.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:25 (twelve years ago) link
Ha, legislators who wrote stand-your-ground do not want their nice little law sullied by the case:
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2012/03/stand-your-ground-fathers-trayvon-martins-shooter-should-likely-be-arrested-doesnt-deserve-immunity.html
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:30 (twelve years ago) link
bizarre speculation even in that article:
Still, there’s a chance Zimmerman could avoid an arrest or a conviction if he were charged because the law gives broad protections to those who claim they had reason to be afraid and to use deadly force.
There’s a chance, for instance, that Zimmerman decided to stop following Trayvon after he was told by a police dispatcher “Okay, we don't need you to do that.” After that, Trayvon could have changed course and confronted Zimmerman.
It’s unclear. Only Zimmerman appears to know.
wtf?
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:33 (twelve years ago) link
The "stand your ground" law seems deeply and fundamentally misconceived to me. The traditional "duty to retreat" outside of one's own home, which was overturned by this law, is needed exactly to prevent situations like this. It's a cop-out to say, "Oh we didn't mean to cover cases like this" when it's exactly cases like this that made the old precedent necessary.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
I think concealed carry itself is the bigger issue, because how you interpret "stand your ground" laws is a very after-the-fact thing, where the fact is often death. I don't think people walking around with a hardon and a handgun are doing elaborate analysis in the moment of whether they have an adequate self-defense justification.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:40 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not a fan of concealed carry either.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:41 (twelve years ago) link
well really concealed carry or open carry. Any liberal carry law.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:43 (twelve years ago) link
Bottom line: you shouldn't be able to walk around with a concealed weapon goading people into taking a swing at you, and when one does you can legally shoot them.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
word
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:46 (twelve years ago) link
I mean those legislators are technically right, it really doesn't sound like this dude has a plausible claim even under that law, but it sounds like the problem in fact in florida is that this law gets used to excuse all kinds of bullshit
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
I really can't believe I live in a country where some gun jack-off's wet-dream fantasies got passed into actual legislation
― dayo, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:55 (twelve years ago) link
you really can't?
― dmr, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
...wtf?
i don't think the speculation is all that bizarre. the reporter's talking about the circumstances under which the law might protect zimmerman, and given that we don't yet have all the facts (and more importantly, haven't heard the arguments presented by zimmerman's still-hypothetical defense team), it doesn't seem unreasonable to speculate.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
I should stop self-deluding and put in my application for overseas citizenship, huh xp
― dayo, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:58 (twelve years ago) link
where is martin's phone?
― goole, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:58 (twelve years ago) link
/semirhetorical
― goole, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:57 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
it's not bizarre in the same way that the glove just didn't happen to fit O.J's hand was not bizarre
― dayo, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, exactly. it's not at all bizarre given the way descriptions of events tend to change once the legal implications become fully understood.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:03 (twelve years ago) link
don't think the speculation is all that bizarre. the reporter's talking about the circumstances under which the law might protect zimmerman, and given that we don't yet have all the facts (and more importantly, haven't heard the arguments presented by zimmerman's still-hypothetical defense team), it doesn't seem unreasonable to speculate.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:57 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I guess? But nothing about the circumstances to me suggests that explanation as a possibility. Teenager scared that he is being followed in a gated community where he doesn't live decides to turn and confront the guy he is afraid he is being followed by and then attacks with sufficient force that self-defense homicide is justified? Why?
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:04 (twelve years ago) link
xpost oic
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:05 (twelve years ago) link
But I mean if the article said "the defense may ARGUE that..." it would sound a little less weird
agreed
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:09 (twelve years ago) link
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 4:03 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark
no my point was that it IS bizarre insofar as it is completely fucking insane
― dayo, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:15 (twelve years ago) link
right I mean the way I read it the article is actually saying "if he didn't do it, here's how it happened" not "here is some bullshit the defense might concoct."
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
What *is* insane, and what all this armchair lawyering is obscuring, is the fat that there is no defense because ZIMMERMAN HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME.
― Three Word Username, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:41 (twelve years ago) link
love this "well we'll never REALLY know what happened that night..." argument when there were like at least 3-5 witnesses plus Trayvon's girlfriend on the phone
― Lester the Unlikely (crüt), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
but that's the thing. we don't know yet who saw what, exactly. so far as i've been able to tell, there aren't any direct witnesses to the shooting other than zimmerman himself. obviously we haven't heard all the evidence yet, so who knows what'll shake out...
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:52 (twelve years ago) link
right I mean the way I read it the article is actually saying "if he didn't do it, here's how it happened"
i read it more as, "the law does protect zimmerman if this happened", but i agree that it was a bit o_0 as written
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 20:54 (twelve years ago) link
actual self defense: http://www.theroot.com/views/freed-prison-still-pain
― s.clover, Tuesday, 20 March 2012 23:22 (twelve years ago) link
So wait, why did Zimmerman have blood and grass stains on his back? I don't get that part
― ffun. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 21 March 2012 02:39 (twelve years ago) link
I can't really say much that hasn't already been said. This story is circulating heavily in the community, and even the "DURR IF YOU'D HEARD THE FIRST HALF OF THE RECORDING" dipshits are finding sympathy in this case. This could get very ugly, fast (not that it isn't already, but we've barely seen how bad things can get if Zimmerman isn't brought to justice. The people of Sanford are angrier than I've seen them in a long time.
Jeb Bush called the Stand Your Ground law "common sense" when he passed it. I would like to hear his thoughts on the law now, given what it has wrought over the last few years. I'm sure he would find a way to pass the buck and blame somebody else or assert "lack of evidence" in all of the cases cited earlier in the thread where the law was applied.
If Zimmerman is not charged, then I propose someone follow him everywhere on foot for a week, and when he finally yells at them "LEAVE ME ALONE", they shoot him and claim they were "standing their ground" and that he threatened them with the volume of his voice.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:10 (twelve years ago) link
(Note I don't really believe in vigilante justice, I'm just really angry and flustered over this whole case. When my state wonders why it is so heavily criticized in the media, it should look no further than cases like this).
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:11 (twelve years ago) link
― Lester the Unlikely (crüt), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:42 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark
totally. Not to mention that even had Trayvon done what the writer says, people do tend to turn around and get ornery when you unnecessarily follow them and make them feel endangered, but that shouldn't give you the right to SHOOT them....but thanks to Florida's ambiguously worded law, there you go.
Not that I believe it anyway. Yes, the evidence is circumstantial, but there is plenty of it to suggest that Trayvon was guilty of being Black in Sanford in the vicinity of a guy who thought he was Seth Rogen in Observe and Report.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:17 (twelve years ago) link
I would like Zimmermann to be interviewed to explain why he yelled "HELP!" on tape. which conveniently cuts out after the gun shots (sadly, I did listen to the recordings, and those of you who abstained...will be glad you did).
Did he like, get attacked, start screaming help, and then think "OH DURR WAIT, I HAVE A GUN!"?
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:20 (twelve years ago) link
o god, i listened to enough of that 911 call to make out the slur, but not to the end. didn't realize that the gun shots were captured, and i'm now super glad i quit when i did. so, uh, what impression do they give? like, do you get a clear picture of what happened?
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:52 (twelve years ago) link
they give an impression that hearing someone beg for mercy and then hearing loud, piercing gun shots is much scarier IRL than on television/movies.
(the audio doesn't paint a clear picture by itself, no, but in context with the other circumstantial pieces it paints part of the picture).
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:53 (twelve years ago) link
I could say that the "help" totally sounded like a kid but I don't think I could say that honestly, it's too hard to tell. Still, logically it doesn't make sense that it was Zimmermann yelling it. He was armed and the voice cut out when the shots rang out.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:54 (twelve years ago) link
Someone yells help a bunch and 90% of the Internet thinks it's Martin and 10% thinks its Zimmerman. And there really should be a fucking attorney making that distinction right now; but Florida continues to be a worthless fucking shithole
― cum on feel the cone (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:55 (twelve years ago) link
if it was Zimmermann, he was yelling "Help" like Uncle Jimbo screamed "THEY'RE COMING RIGHT FOR US" on South Park
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:56 (twelve years ago) link
It's totally possible that it was Zimmerman screaming if theres truth to his probably-not-true story about being attacked.
Either way this is something a detective could figure out in like two hours; but it's best to just let the Internet make guesses. Good work, Florida, sink into the fucking Gulf
― cum on feel the cone (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 21 March 2012 03:59 (twelve years ago) link
well considering that they sent a narcotics detective to investigate a homicide....
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 04:08 (twelve years ago) link
The state attorney's office also said a voice analysis would be conducted on 911 calls from the night of the shooting to determine who was yelling for help.
this mystery should be over soon.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 04:14 (twelve years ago) link
in Zimmermann's 911 call he points out that the dude is Black like two or three times in the first five minutes. and says 'something is wrong with him' over and over...no specifics.
fucking loon.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 04:19 (twelve years ago) link