Kenny Dalglish Won't Be Delivering the Module: English Premiership 2011-12

except possibly losing Moyes to Tottenham in the Summer

Which is a fair bit to worry about, tbh. Recall how Everton and Spurs were basically of equal potential for much of mid-late '00s? It wouldn't even have been considered a step up until the last couple of seasons (e.g. EFC finishing 19pts ahead of THFC in 07-08).

I will be ignoring the game tonight. Derbies are bad enough without so much riding on them. (Yeah, I know - "who gets to finish just outside Europa League places"). And L'pool can't lose four in a row. Setting expectations low.

Kenny Dalglish: 'Kit deals and a happy club are as good as points'

It's got nil-nil all over it. Liverpool can't do it at home or against anyone outside the elite. Everton are great against teams making the running, not so much against dour sit-in types.

This is a similar situation to the Anfield derby of four seasons ago, when (a much better IMO) Everton went into it two points behind, conceded an early Torres goal, never really threatened, ended up (only one place but...) 11pts adrift by May.

All set up for a very particular kind of Evertonian disappointment, this - esp with it being Moyes' 10th anniversary, etc. If a supposedly struggling Spurs come to Goodison and rain 23 shots at goal, y'know...

Sorry to be such a misery. I'm mildly stirred at the potential of the situation but a lifetime of anxiety-pacing the colour out of carpets and punching radio commentaries off in frustration has me primed for a 3-0 defeat.

Sam, this is a bit more fun than the corresponding period of last season, no?

― Upt0eleven, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 11:40 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This point yes but that whole season up until this point was a lot better going. I think I have given up any point of taking us seriously or holding on to my Wengerball beliefs now too, which makes it a bit breezier. As long as we don't come below Spurs.

Excited about tonight. There is always a customary sending off and I think both have been too hesistant in front of goal for too long. Might bet on Suarez goals.

i've sat on the fence for a while now but fuck it. some serious questions need to be asked this summer. does comolli's remit as director of football include deciding what style of play we're supposed to be playing, or is he a glorified chief scout? the alarm bells were ringing when we signed suarez and carroll in the same window, two players who don't compliment each other at all, and (i'm sticking my neck out here) never will. we need to decide what type of team we want to be, because the summer signings and the subsequent failure of the coaching staff to implement any kind of cohesive approach, style of play or strategy is a fucking shambles.

^^^ Basically exactly what happened to Spurs in the latter days of the Jol era and the Ramos era in particular.

Which is a fair bit to worry about, tbh. Recall how Everton and Spurs were basically of equal potential for much of mid-late '00s? It wouldn't even have been considered a step up until the last couple of seasons (e.g. EFC finishing 19pts ahead of THFC in 07-08

Don't think this is really the case, Everton had the edge on footballing matters for a good while, certainly a better manager, but Tottenham always had more potential just because of the amount of money in the bank.

I mean I think without Moyes Everton would very likely have been relegated at some point over the last decade. They've never been considered relegation candidates even when they had disappointing starts to a season, there's always been that level of footballing stability there, not to mention that fourth place finish. I'd be absolutely fucking terrified of losing him.

I don't think they'd have got relegated, I think they'd be in a position similar to Villa today (looking lost and fucked financially, lots of bad signings, still not going to go down without some disaster)

thanks for the reminder of Villa's woes.

tis cool homie

Everton were regular relegation candidates in the 90s, string of ropey managers etc. Villa have had more buying power for most of that time. Everton could easily have slipped out of the division like Wednesday.and City did back in the day.

Agree they'd've gone down. They had last-day escapes more than once in the 90s as I remember it. Their fate may be more bound up with one man than is the case for any other club.

well, them and chelsea

everton should have been bought by an oligarch by now, maybe staying up and therefore in the hands of kenwright wasn't a good thing

course, maybe being bought by an oligarch isn't a good thing, ymmv

ahh, that everton-coventry game in 98 where gareth farrelly scored, and the chelsea fans willing bolton to score and stay up. classic.

chris may you be ever damned for mentioning wingnut out of the blue like that without a trigger warning

Last-day escapes in 93-94 (Mike Walker) and 97-98 (Howard Kendall, part III: The Drunkening).

Early '90s were mediocre but not relegation-threatened.

94-95 was the season of the abysmal start (not much worse than 05-06 under Moyes, tbh), Walker's departure and Royle as Cup-winning savour. Missed UEFA Cup place by a point or smthg 95-96 (Kanchelskis running riot). 96-97 was a headlong rush down the table from Xmas onwards, 98-99 we couldn't score at home to save our lives until Kevin Campbell arrived. 99-2k great start, wobbly finish. 2001 safe by Easter. 2002, a point above the drop zone when Moyes arrived, Unsworth scored vs Fulham after 32sec and we could even afford to lose our last two games and be safe by 7pts.

xxxp

it's about Moyes' seeming ability to squeeze a lot out of a small pot as much as whether things were bad before he came along. he'd be a v. tough guy for anybody to replace imo

Ah, but you know what was kinda good about the '90s? Our derby record. Didn't lose one between March '94 and April '99 and were unbeaten at Goodison for nearly 11 years. Oh, for some of that good fortune this evening.

kinda feel that moyes struggles with money, when he's had it

justified? dunno.

not sure he'd be the revelation that's assumed at a better-financed club with higher expectations

http://transferpriceindex.com/2011/07/the-declining-fortunes-of-david-moyes-an-mxir-analysis/

not read it yet but it looks interesting.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59038000/jpg/_59038804_gettymoyesdalglish.jpg

moyes could be replaced by di canio

not saying Moyes is good with money per se, saying he has been great working within the confines of the squads he's had

beautiful rubbish, the m£xir stuff, but there's value in the written enalysis imo

yeah, nv, but that's a very distinct talent that, imo, doesn't in any way relate to how a manager would do when given (leaving cash aside) a bigger/better quality squad and having to manage the different problems that arise in that scenario.

The idea that Moyes can't do money, what's that based on?

specifically acknowledged this as possible fantasy tbf

It's not just you though, I've read it elsewhere.

Moyes has broken the club record for highest transfer fee paid on four occasions, signing James Beattie for £6 million in January 2005,[19] Andy Johnson for £8.6 million in summer 2006,[19] Yakubu for £11.25 million in summer 2007,[20] and Marouane Fellaini for £15 million in September 2008

sayin

None of those disastrous and Fellaini genuinely outstanding, even if I'm struggling to remember Johnson in a blue shirt.

r wright 3.5m 2003
beattie 6m 2004
s davies 4m 2005
kroldrup 5m 2005
a johnson 8.6m 2006
jagielka 4m 2007 rip
yakubu 11.25m 2007
fellaini 15m 2008
heitinga 7m 2009

when d moyes spends more than a couple mil, bad things happen a lot more oft than not

is Fellaini worth more than 15 now? better buys include pienaar, arteta, and lescott.
xp

fellaini 'genuinely outstanding' at 15m?

no, no i really think not.

lots of 'undisclosed' fees (inc lescott) so i suppose it's open to question as a thesis, but arteta, pienaar, p neville, cahill and p much every other unqualified success moyes has had in transfers inwards has been < 3m or so

thinking aboput it, is that kind of a scottish managerial characteristic y/n

many of fergie's bigger buys (obv in a posher shop than moyes) have been questioned over the years

andy carroll to thread

well yeah, along with veron, rooney, nani prob earned his way out of this group but anderson v much hasn't, oh i dunno can i get someone from work experience to do up a list pls

expect carroll and suarez to link up majestically later and prove me wrong.

ah, the fabled quadruple-jinx, daring effort imo

Mad challops being talked here now. Kenwright's been trying to sell Everton for years, sure he'd have loved to sell to an oligarch but Everton isn't really the sort of club they queue up for.

Given how hard Everton are to score against, I don't reckon you can criticise Fellaini, Jagielka or Heitinga signings too much. It's the strikers where he falls down, but none of those are particularly big money signings as these go. Beattie and Yakubu were proven prolific Premiership strikers, I can see why he signed them. It'd be like signing Darren Bent now only for his form and fitness to collapse.

http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F166681-well-chuffed%2F

not premier league but this is the go-to for random football related stuff for me

Wow, they have David Jones emoticons

lol at the wilful cliffhangery by the mod closing the thread

challops? bit harsh tbh. down-on-their-luck giants p much the archetype purchase of oligarchs btw

finish

srsly finish

first goal by a Liverpool player at home this year.