abortion classic or dud?

super.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/16/oklahoma-senate-passes-personhood-act-effectively-banning-all-abortions/

that author either didn't do enough research on this bill or the bill is so obviously unconstitutional that it'll be enjoined before it takes effect. i'm actually just as inclined to believe it's the former

yeah that thing was cartoonishly awful

ugh, Virginia.

hate living here tbh

Asked once about abortions in the case of incest, Marshall replied that sometimes the incest was voluntary.

“The woman becomes a sin-bearer of the crime, because the right of a child predominates over the embarrassment of the woman,” he said.

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

ha that's refreshingly clear tbh

christians who claim to believe abortion is murder, but don't take up violent acts to stop it,* are they hypocrites? like it seems that if you feel murder is happening, you are ethical obligated to do whatever you can to stop it. is it that they don't really, really feel like it's murder (aka, it's like calling your opponent a Nazi - you know they aren't but you're using that language for rhetorical effect)? or is it that they do but they feel threatened by the state? maybe some feel guilty about not taking more drastic actions? i'm really curious about this, but it seems to be a huge ethical disconnect to me...

* nb I know some do, but they are in the minority, the vast majority do not

thinking about this tonight bc slate republished this tucker carlson article:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/02/rick_santorum_prenatal_testing_and_abortion_tucker_carlson_s_classic_essay_on_prenatal_testing_and_the_abortion_of_down_syndrome_babies_.4.html

which i don't find compelling at all as an argument against abortion, but obviously it resonated w/ someone (at slate) pretty significantly that they went out of their way to republish it

"Read Tucker Carlson’s classic essay"

WHAT NEW TYPE OF TROLLING IS THIS?

On the other hand: http://open.salon.com/blog/sarah_gale/2012/02/19/why_rick_santorum_would_have_killed_my_daughter_1

A woman writes about how an amniocentesis saved her daughter's life 6 months into her pregnancy. Without prenatal testing covered by insurance, they'd never have been able to afford the test and her baby would not have lived even 24 hours.

"Read Tucker Carlson's classic concerntrolling"

needs to be an animated gif of a spinning bowtie next to the byline

Meanwhile: Virginia.

This is just bucketfuls of RAGH

Refusal to see the ultrasound results goes on a woman's permanent medical record. But we won't stick an ultrasound probe in her vagina now. Awesome.

I have absolutely no idea what the ultrasound refusal record does. Biases future doctors? Marks the women as potential criminals when we finally get a religious oligarchy?

christians who claim to believe abortion is murder, but don't take up violent acts to stop it,* are they hypocrites? like it seems that if you feel murder is happening, you are ethical obligated to do whatever you can to stop it. is it that they don't really, really feel like it's murder (aka, it's like calling your opponent a Nazi - you know they aren't but you're using that language for rhetorical effect)? or is it that they do but they feel threatened by the state? maybe some feel guilty about not taking more drastic actions? i'm really curious about this, but it seems to be a huge ethical disconnect to me...

it definitely is a rhetorical disconnection. I suck at articulating the point, so i'll do what I do best and link to a better breakdown

...If someone really believed that children’s lives are at stake, they would be too busy chaining themselves across the front doors of hospitals to waste precious hours just talking, talking, talking — mostly about themselves and their alleged morals. Blog disputes, self-congratulation and the marking-off of tribal territory would be luxuries such a true believer could not afford when 3,300 children are about to be murdered and the clock is always ticking ticking ticking.

I have seen very, very few people whose behavior allowed me to believe that they really believed any such thing...

xpost mh: in lieu of a scarlet letter, basically. Who the fuck knows. So they can be tsk'd at by future doctors?

and yet I see similar behavior in other areas. i know ppl who sincerely believe that the united states is responsible for murdering children worldwide but they also live normal lives. i think some things you can believe, but bc of the relationship between the individual + the state, or the individual and society, or whatever, you just feel so powerless to act on your 'beliefs.' (obv there's some distance here from the core belief, but i don't think it means necessarily that they don't really believe it.) ppl in history have been witness to terrible crimes against their fellow man, and been unable to act. i'm not saying it is so here -- but it could be?

i think a lot of anti-abortion types see it as "wrong" and "immoral" in an abstract kind of way, the % that actually feels it is murder in a visceral way is relatively small, and those types are the ones out marching, harassing clinics etc.

Guess Virginia isn't for Lovers anymore.

christians who claim to believe abortion is murder, but don't take up violent acts to stop it,* are they hypocrites? like it seems that if you feel murder is happening, you are ethical obligated to do whatever you can to stop it. is it that they don't really, really feel like it's murder (aka, it's like calling your opponent a Nazi - you know they aren't but you're using that language for rhetorical effect)? or is it that they do but they feel threatened by the state? maybe some feel guilty about not taking more drastic actions? i'm really curious about this, but it seems to be a huge ethical disconnect to me...

* nb I know some do, but they are in the minority, the vast majority do not

― Mordy, Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

most sects of christianity don't promote or condone violence. i haven't been to church in a while but I don't see the hypocrisy

wake me up when my ladyparts are *completely* illegal. just tell me what page in the margaret atwood anthology to turn to.

I get the impression a lot of people are against abortion until "it happens to them" in some way. Also, I recall seeing a clip where some guy went around at an anti abortion protest asking people, if they wanted abortion illegalised, does that mean they want all women in that situation sent to jail? Majority of ppl asked looked suprised, baffled, and said "oh, well... no, that seems harsh". I mean ffs.

I'm pretty sure a lot of pro-lifers will tell you "murder is murder."

i know ppl who sincerely believe that the united states is responsible for murdering children worldwide but they also live normal lives.

There's no way to stop it. That's my practical side.

I know more than one person who has worked at a clinic or as an escort for a clinic, who has seen protestors later show up at the same clinic to get an abortion for themselves or their daughters. And didn't feel they were being hypocrites at all! And were back protesting soon after!

That happens alllllllll the time.

"The only moral abortion is my abortion!"

and Trayce, here's the video you mentioned upthread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo

This is kind of interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RFC/AAT

http://www.guernicamag.com/features/3535/ptacin_3_1_12

oh god, three days for a D&E? I feel so bad for the writer :(

I feel the need to point out that the name of the procedure is a dilation and extraction or evacuation, not excavation. Her uterus isn't an archeological site.

http://images.45cat.com/the-cramps-whats-inside-a-girl-big-beat.jpg

Is a d&e the same as a d&c? I've only ever heard ”d&c” used in nz.

D&C happens in first trimester, D&E later.

Those 3 choices. "So, no to all of them but which one would I say no to the least." Fuck.

And the convo with the mother about giving birth to the dead baby just ripped me apart.

I feel the need to point out that the name of the procedure is a dilation and extraction or evacuation, not excavation. Her uterus isn't an archeological site.

― kate78, Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

yeah 'excavation' kinda threw me, I was like 'that's a bit of an extreme name for a procedure isn't it?'

I had images of frog dissection where the parts are splayed out and pinned and affixed with labels and I was v unhappy

Tennessee to facilitate murder of abortion providers:

A new bill headed for a vote by a Tennessee House committee this week targets abortion providers by requiring the state’s Department of Health to publish detailed information about doctors on a public website.

Known as H.B. 3308, or the “Life Defense Act of 2012,” the bill would not actually level any real “defense” of human embryos. Instead, it would require the Tennessee Department of Health to publish more detailed information about abortions carried out in the state, including the names of doctors who performed them and the hospitals they work with.

It would also require detailed statistics on abortions, including time, date, the woman’s medical conditions at the time, the age of the fetus, the type of procedure performed, the location of the procedure, and the woman’s age, race and marital status, along with details on how many times she has been pregnant.

While all states collect some basic information on abortions, H.B. 3308 would make Tennessee’s reporting the most detailed in the nation.

the amount of time that tennessee state legislators spend on mean-spirited vindicitve bullshit is just amazing

i sort of wish that story elaborated on what roeder's public justification for that bill is

I started doing some digging to see the number of politicians murdered in Tennessee versus the number of doctors who performed abortions and ran across this wholly fascinating case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_Looper

yeahh

Texas State Senator's Office Firebombed: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/03/20/sen-wendy-davis-fort-worth-office-hit-with-molotov-cocktail/

Apparently she is one of the very few pro-Planned Parenthood legislators in the state.

insane.

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/03/31/at-11th-hour-georgia-passes-women-as-livestock-bill/

After an emotional 14-hour workday that included fist-fights between lobbyists and a walk-out by women Democrats, the Georgia House passed a Senate-approved bill Thursday night that criminalizes abortion after 20 weeks.

The bill, which does not contain rape or incest exemptions, is expected to receive a signature from Republican Gov. Nathan Deal.
Commonly referred to as the “fetal pain bill” by Georgian Republicans and as the “women as livestock bill” by everyone else, HB 954 garnered national attention this month when state Rep. Terry England (R-Auburn) compared pregnant women carrying stillborn fetuses to the cows and pigs on his farm. According to Rep. England and his warped thought process, if farmers have to “deliver calves, dead or alive,” then a woman carrying a dead fetus, or one not expected to survive, should have to carry it to term.

The bill as first proposed outlawed all abortions after 20 weeks under all circumstances. After negotiations with the Senate, the House passed a revised HB 954 that makes an exemption for “medically futile” pregnancies or those in which the woman’s life or health is threatened.
If this makes its seem like Rep. England and the rest of the representatives looked beyond their cows and pigs and recognized women as capable, full-thinking human beings, think again: HB 954 excludes a woman’s “emotional or mental condition,” which means women suffering from mental illness would be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. It also ignores pregnant women who are suicidal and driven to inflict harm on themselves because of their unwanted pregnancy.

In order for a pregnancy to be considered “medically futile,” the fetus must be diagnosed with an irreversible chromosomal or congenital anomaly that is “incompatible with sustaining life after birth.” The Georgia “fetal pain” bill also stipulates that the abortion must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive. If doctors perform the abortion differently, they face felony charges and up to 10 years in prison. Given all this, the so-called compromise suddenly does not look like much of a bargain.

For anti-choice lawmakers, it is an item of faith that fetuses feel pain at 20 weeks. But scientists disagree. Reviews of all existing medical evidence have found that fetuses have not developed the neurological structures to feel pain until at least 25 weeks, and likely not until 28 weeks, in the third trimester.

Although Roe v. Wade set the precedent for abortion to be legal up to 24 weeks, state legislatures continue to ram through restrictive anti-choice laws. Georgia will join six other states with fetal pain restrictions—Nebraska, Indiana, Idaho, Kansas, Oklahoma and Alabama. North Carolina prohibits abortion after 20 weeks.

Arizona is now poised to join the roster, as the Senate passed a 20-week abortion restriction Tuesday. The bill, which awaits final approval from the House, also requires women seeking abortions to look at a state-run website littered with anti-choice propaganda.

And in the Northeast, arguably the country’s most pro-choice region, the New Hampshire House voted Thursday to ban abortion after 20 weeks. The bill now moves to the Senate to join four other anti-abortion bills passed by the House this month.

Although GOP’s war on women continues to deal blow after blow, this week held two small victories: The Oklahoma Supreme Court struck down mandated ultrasounds while the Idaho House dropped the ultrasound bill all together.

these people are basically medieval and totally beyond redemption

meanwhile, my friends decided that at six months of age, their baby is finally smarter than their cats, although much less agile

sounds like a fair fight

Why Planned Parenthood won't take $500K

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanholiday/2012/04/03/why-wont-planned-parenthood-take-500000/