The Anthony Bourdain thread

Andrew Zimmerman, I think.

and come on all of these shows are basically "Ow My Balls" and have next to nothing to do with how people actually cook/eat

i didn't no what 'these shows' are, but Bourdain's show has everything to do with how people actually live/eat/cook

andrew zimmern, who was in first class on a plane i was on btw. brushes with fame, so fleeting.

xp

but it's not clear how much he gets that some of his cool is pretty middlebrow (in a pretty nyc metro kinda way).

he's old. his coolness is rooted in another era. one era's cutting edge is another's middlebrow.

Okay, weird, I don't know why Zimmern's dorkiness doesn't count for me as Real Live Person -- we get a pretty clear view of what that dude is like -- but there's something about it where it's like a dorky guy trying to be cheery and entertaining and presentery, doing a job, that cuts against what I mean. You will never get an "are you freaking serious, I'm supposed to do this" face from Zimmern, he'll never make a sarcastic comments about other people's behavior, and you'll never see him in a van trying to compare his poop with the production team's (aka Bourdain's biggest kinda-lame moment on the show, which I nevertheless enjoyed because, okay, travel + eating show = you are going to think about your poop more often than other people).

"i didn't no what 'these shows' are, but Bourdain's show has everything to do with how people actually live/eat/cook"

It's hit or miss. It tries more than most, I'll give you that.

i didn't no what 'these shows' are

cooking shows as featured on the Travel Channel, Bravo, and the Food Network. About half of them are bullshit "challenge" style shows, and the other half is about evenly split between food tourism ("ooh look I'm eating at a diner/poor person's house/tourist trap!") and shitty "how to make scrambled eggs"-type cooking shows for morons. There's the odd glimmer of hope in each of these categories but by and large all of them are terrible.

I kind of like how Bourdain acknowledges at some level that he's a better writer and tv personality than a chef and I live vicariously through his eating and drinking jaunts around the globe; he may not be the best cook but he seems like a first class diner.

man, i don't really get a "badass" or tough guy vibe from Bourdain at all. most of Bourdain's humor seems to be in the self-deprecating lol-i'm-an-awkward-tall-white-guy-from-NYC-who-doesn't-fit-in-here vein. i won't pretend i've seen a lot of his show, but i've read two of his books and seen a few really good episodes.

xpost-

he's old. his coolness is rooted in another era. one era's cutting edge is another's middlebrow.

i just backspaced over this other paragraph i wrote because this said it better. i also made mention of Patton Oswalt's cringe-inducing Fugazi name-dropping as something it reminds me of. kind of ickily reminds me of baby boomer 'tude.

The problem is I think he was a good writer about being a chef (I only rate Kitchen Confidential, everything starts to go downhill quick from there.) He's a run-of-the-mill writer about being a cultural tourist and he's a hit-or-miss cultural tourist.

I couldn't get past the first few pages of Kitchen Confidential. sorry

Yeah even that book's mileage may vary based on how much of Bourdain's "voice' you can tolerate.

He is in Detroit today, apparently, to film a segment for his show.

― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, January 7, 2009 12:22 PM

Maybe he'll give a shout out to Ron Asheton. When I talked to him earlier this decade he told me his favorite album of alltime was Fun House.

This so-called "voice"

It turns out that I can tolerate quite a lot of it!

but it's not clear how much he gets that some of his cool is pretty middlebrow (in a pretty nyc metro kinda way).

this plus the Patton Oswalt-related comment upthread are what really bug me about him. There is a weird boomer-esque smugness to him and the way he thinks he and his tastes are "cool" that I find really irritating (ooh you did heroin and like the Doors = you are a dork)

its a kind of studied machoness that equates coolness with leather jackets and motorcycles but in Bourdain's case also happens to include his foodie preferences.

i agree with shakey except i don't actually have a problem with him being a dork

i should make it a goal to go to detroit before his show comes out

any idea what the 4 other restaurants Carlos runs outside of Les Halles are?

― dan selzer, Wednesday, January 7, 2009 6:07 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i don't know but dude should really open up a mexican food place.

I don't disagree with you Shakey and yours is a totally valid reaction to him, but, like I said, it's the fact that I can see through all that to the real person (goofy, kinda hippiesh more than NYC O.G. punk cool, when it comes down to it) that endears me to him.

I don't have a problem with pointing out his clay feet but I am charitable to him mostly because I am sure that my tastes and the touchstones for what is 'cool', thorugh the inevitable and inexorable processes of genrations individuating themselves (if not simply thtough my own native dorkitude) will leave me, like almost everyone, completely uncool, if they haven't already and I've come to terms with that.

Fwiw, I didn't think there was anything much special about Les Halles when I finally went there last year.

Do you guys really think Bourdain thinks he's cool because he wears a leather jacket and likes some bands? That is some petty shit.

Why are you arguing about it then?

Maybe the point is more that Bourdain thinks OTHER people are cool cause they wear leather jacket and like some bands? I could care less regardless.

COULDN'T

Dude's in his 50s; the fact that we're even talking about whether he's "cool" seems notable

I don't think he's "cool," by the way -- I'm firmly in the "it's just nice to see a recognizable human personality on TV" camp -- but honestly, if we're talking about music/fashion tendencies here, I know a million people twenty years younger than him who he strikes me as pretty much like, so I'm not going to around calling him out for not being sufficiently cool.

Ok, I lied, I don't know a million people, but you know what I mean.

The thing to remember is Would Smash.

ooh you did heroin and like the Doors = you are a dork

i lol'd (because it's true) but i like him a lot and don't mind this corny aspect of his persona. all in all he presents himself as a pretty humble and curious dude, and those are winning qualities.

Fwiw, I didn't think there was anything much special about Les Halles when I finally went there last year.

there isn't now, and probably never was

Bourdain comes across as a likable doofus whose in on his own joke so I'm able to forgive a lot of his excesses.

My favorite episode is the Catalonian one where he visits El Bulli and Arzak. If I ever get the urge to spend several hundred dollars on a meal (seems completely frivolous I know) I'd definitely give El Bulli a shot. Plus, the restaurant looks like someplace that could have been designed by Peter Saville. http://www.elbulli.com/

Bourdain comes across as a likable doofus whose in on his own joke so I'm able to forgive a lot of his excesses.

OTM... He says over and over again throughout his later books and his TV shows that he basically hit a big score and has been riding the wave ever since. Whether he's a good chef or cool or whatever, I think that kind of honesty comes across in his writing and most of the presentation of his shows.

I have to wonder where he's going to go in Detroit... I'm guessing Coney Dogs, maybe Middle Eastern food in Dearborn, and the requisite compare/contrast of the new developments downtown with the destitute rest of the inner city.

Seems like he'd have to hit Eastern Market too. I hope he ends up at one of the random hole-in-the-wall soul food or ham sandwich places I used to drive by but regretfully never stopped at.

he basically hit a big score and has been riding the wave ever since

Exactly - he knows that he lucked into this second unexpected career and digs that he gets to do what he does now and gets paid for it. There seems to be real happiness about it that you can't fake and I enjoy watching.

he's not cool because of the leather jacket and heroin history, he's cool in spite of it.

I think he's genuine because of it, because you get the sense that he's not the guy going "I served food to my favorite bands and slept on the beach because I'm a cool guy," you get the sense that he's the grown-up version of the kid who's drawing band logos on his school notebooks so hard that the covers fall off because it just thrills him to do it.

Maybe I'm trying to get at the idea that he's not really at all pretentious, he's just really honest about what he's about and isn't doing it to prove anything. Or at least he comes off reasonably well like that.

The DC episode was great. This season has been fantastic.

nice!got that on the tivo.

Recent interview

Would you want to do a country-specific exploration show, like the Spain - On the Road show featuring Chef Mario Batali, cookbook writer Mark Bittman and Gwyneth Paltrow?

I would love to do something with Mario. It's been an unrealized ambition to produce a show for Mario, honestly. He's so smart. The guy knows so much. He's easily the funniest and smartest celebrity chef out there. The Spain show. I'm disappointed. After seeing the Spain show, I see room for improvement. Life is good for Mario, he's got life by the tail. It was probably a lot of fun for him to make that show and not too demanding of his time. But I would very much like to produce a show where he tells us everything he knows about Italy. I think that would be good and informative television. I just don't know if he wants to put in the time commitment given all the businesses he has.

Okay, I'll just say it. I think the Spain show is f***ing awful. Mark Bittman comes off unsympathetic to say the least. Bringing someone who cannot or will not eat jamon [Gwyneth Paltrow] to Spain is a misjudgment. My crew grinds their teeth with rage looking at the crummy production values. Bad camera work, bad sound, bad direction. The whole thing sucks. It's unfortunate. It's mesmerizingly awful.

Does traveling make you appreciate being an American more?

I think traveling HAS made me appreciate America a lot more. Not because the rest of the world is deprived or so awful that we should appreciate what we have in America. To the contrary, I've been having a really great time. A lot of the world has a lot to hold over us in a lot of respects. I think it makes me more appreciative, more open to people, more appreciative of what it's like to live in a place like Detroit. I'm just more tolerant and open-minded about different cultures. Buffalo is a different culture. I look at Buffalo and Buffalonians as a different culture now. Ten years ago, I would have looked at them as those poor guys who live upstate, and I'm lucky enough to live in Manhattan. That's the way I would have seen it 10 years ago. Now I see it as a very distinct personality, a very distinct culture with its own architecture, its own kinda feel. It's, actually, a weirdly wonderful place. Even in winter. I think it took me traveling around the world to get to that point.

The inauguration is tomorrow. Do you have any advice for our soon-to-be president?

I would not presume to advise him on anything. By virtue of being elected, he has made my life as a traveler much much easier. I've felt the impact abroad already. I get congratulated by complete strangers walking up to me in Sri Lanka and Vietnam. It's been a tough eight years to be a traveling American. I don't think people hated Americans, but there was a look that people gave you. Just by virtue of being an American you were like some well-intentioned, but rabid golden retriever. A look of curiosity, disbelief and horror. And this was in England and Australia. I'm particularly proud and happy about our new president. There will be a tangible difference in the way Americans are treated abroad. It just feels better. Above and beyond all the policy.

Any advice about food?

I'll tell you. Alice Waters annoys the living shit out of me. We're all in the middle of a recession, like we're all going to start buying expensive organic food and running to the green market. There's something very Khmer Rouge about Alice Waters that has become unrealistic. I mean I'm not crazy about our obsession with corn or ethanol and all that, but I'm a little uncomfortable with legislating good eating habits. I'm suspicious of orthodoxy, the kind of orthodoxy when it comes to what you put in your mouth. I'm a little reluctant to admit that maybe Americans are too stupid to figure out that the food we're eating is killing us. But I don't know if it's time to send out special squads to close all the McDonald's. My libertarian side is at odds with my revulsion at what we as a country have done to ourselves physically with what we've chosen to eat and our fast food culture. I'm really divided on that issue. It'd be great if he served better food at the White House than what I suspect the Bushies were serving. It's gotta be better than Nixon. He liked starting up a roaring fire, turning up the air conditioning, and eating a bowl of cottage cheese with ketchup. Anything above that is a good thing. He's from Chicago, so he knows what good food is.

Well that last paragraph is a blast and a half.

What a maroon.

He's from Chicago, so he knows what good food is.

This is something I've never heard before, and I'm not sure how it's supposed to work. (I'm not disagreeing with it, just not sure what the thrust is!)

i'm with him, Alice Waters annoys the shit out of me as well

It'd be great if he served better food at the White House than what I suspect the Bushies were serving.

wow, so something he and Alice Waters have in common are misconceptions about the food served at the White House.

Alice Waters and Walter Scheib, a former White House chef, have been nattering at one another for several months over who could or should cook for the new first family. The two reached a détente Sunday night, at the same party where Tom Colicchio performed the Heimlich maneuver on Joan Nathan.

They met during a dinner honoring a dozen chefs from around the country who came to Washington to cook a series of dinners. Held in private homes on Monday night, the dinners raised money for two local soup kitchens and helped promote Ms. Waters’s desire to make federal policy more welcoming to local, organic and sustainable food.

Mr. Scheib and Ms. Waters made their way to an upstairs room and closed the door. His first words were: “I’m 100 percent behind your agenda. The only dilemma I had is over what you said about Cris, who is my friend,” a reference to Cristeta Comerford, who was hired by Mr. Scheib and was promoted to executive chef after he left, in 2005. “She can’t talk publicly so I became her surrogate. I defend my friends.”

Ms. Waters and others had suggested the Obamas replace her with a chef who would cook locally and sustainably. Mr. Scheib took offense, he said, not only because Ms. Comerford is a talented cook, but because the White House kitchen already does many of the things Ms. Waters has suggested.

During the Clinton Administration, in response to a suggestion from Ms. Waters for a big vegetable garden on the White House lawn, a small garden was planted on the roof . It provided enough tomatoes, peppers, squash, cucumbers and herbs for the first family, but not their guests.

At about the same time, Mr. Scheib said, the White House began buying from about 40 different local farmers and co-ops, although for security reasons this was not widely discussed. If word leaked out that a purveyor was supplying food to the President, it was immediately dropped from the list, a Secret Service requirement.

Laura Bush took things a step further. “To her credit, Mrs. Bush was adamant about organic foods,” he said. “It goes counter to her perceived personality, but it was never important to her that the information to be released.”

xpost - Basically I dunno it it means "he's from an urban center with a diverse food culture, so he knows what good food is" or if it's actually saying "hey, Chicagoans know their food"

I love how people are annoyed by Alice Waters now... and she hasn't changed her local/organic-gourmet philosophy in almost 40 years.

"i'm with him, Alice Waters annoys the shit out of me as well"

She annoys the shit out of me too, but the line "I'm a little uncomfortable with legislating good eating habits" reveals that he has even less of a fucking clue than she does.

I think it's supposed to say "hey, Chicagoans know their food", but it's like saying "he's from Hawaii so he knows his surfing."