Scottish things and people that I like

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Two 'n's - Thank you.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

My flatmate, from Fife, says "the noo". I like that.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

Of course, I say that AND "Och aye"!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:29 (twenty years ago)

I would like to point out I was most taken with the concept of having tickets on oneself. (Not that I do etc etc despite being accused jokingly several times)

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

What does "having tickets on oneself" actually *mean*?

― Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

i wish i could say och aye

― dahlin (dahlin), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

Someone who has tickets on themselves considers themselves to be gallus. Hope that helps.

― scotstvo (scotstvo), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:09 (twenty years ago)

Considers themselves to be A Roman Emperor?

I'm even more confused now!

― Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:12 (twenty years ago)

What is the noo? I've always been afraid to ask.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:20 (twenty years ago)

That photo gives me the wullies.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:20 (twenty years ago)

Noo=now

― Stew (stew s), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

More likely a Moron Emperar.

― scotstvo (scotstvo), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

"The now?"

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:25 (twenty years ago)

Just now, yes.

― scotstvo (scotstvo), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:25 (twenty years ago)

I found myself saying "yon" (for "that") the other day. Just slipped out.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:33 (twenty years ago)

"Och aye the noo" = "Oh yes, just now"

I once heard of a guy at Celtic Park saying "aw naw er Annoni on an aw noo" which is brilliant if you say it quickly.

(trans: Oh no! There's Annoni* on as well now)
(*Enrico Annoni: pish Italian defender who was once Celtic's highest earner)

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

My favourite is "Ah'm urnae" - which seems to translate as "I am are not"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:54 (twenty years ago)

As I understand it, it means you fancy yourself a bit.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 29 July 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

O. M. G.

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/vli/language/scots/index.htm

It's pure mad n'at huvvin yer ain pairliment n'at ay?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 29 July 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

That is the best thing I've ever seen!

Even better than "Glaswegian Windoos" or whatever it was called.

― Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 14:36 (twenty years ago)

I thought it was a piss take at first.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 29 July 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

It is aften yaisefu tae ken aboot the Pairlament an whit is gaun on in it afore ye get involved or hae yer say. There sindry weys tae get mair speirins anent the Pairlament or oniething in this leaflet.

That makes the linguist in me roll over on my back and waggle my arms and legs in the air with joy!

― Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

It's a bit too close to Chewin' The Fat's "Translated for the Neds" sketches for my liking.

Awright troops!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 29 July 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

Well, I did actually read one of their documents ... and the first one that was translated was all about "how to increase communication in minority languages"

(And FWIW, Scots is not just a "Translated for Neds" type dialect - it is actually a separate language, related to Old English/Anglo Saxon but with more Scandinavian influence and less Norman.)

― Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

aye right

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:00 (twenty years ago)

Or Report on Inquiry intil the role o educational and cultural policy in uphaudin and bringin oot Gaelic, Scots and minority leids in Scotland (Volume 1) as they would have it.

― Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

If that's not a dialect I don't know what is.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

Just a reminder to you chaps that it's Mr.Fiendish's 30th birthday do tomorrow at Mono from 8pm.

― KeefW (kmw), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

That's like saying that Modern English is a dialect of Anglo Saxon!

― Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:21 (twenty years ago)

Why has ILX got so Scottish lately, anyway?

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

It's where it it's at.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)

What am I talking about? I need to go home.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)

Where is home?

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

The line between a language and a dialect is pretty blurry. Where it's blurry, I think what gets called what has as much to do with politics as linguistics. But then, I don't know anything about it.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)

It is blurry and think you have to leave it to the speakers, really. If they call it a separate language then it's a separate language. It helps if they have their own nation (see Norway). I read about this once. I think Kate has read more.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

Well according to Wikipedia it's officially recognised as a language, even though that is controversial.

There's more linguistic, grammatical and vocabulary evidence - as well as historical - that English and Scots are different languages than, say, Swedish and Norwegian.

x-post, I am such a linguistic pedant, sigh.

― Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

But people who have an interest in forging an ethnicity are going to call what they speak a language, because there's a bit of a value judgement in the distinction between 'language' and 'dialect'. 'Language' is more important. If they've got their own language, why shouldn't they have their own state? etc.

x-post

I can't see any real grammatical difference at all, based on the page linked to above. It's just spelling and the odd bit of vocabulary.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

"A language is a dialect that has its own navy" I once read in a Richard Rorty book, but I think he was quoting someone else.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

Scots was originally the language of an independent nation: it was spoken at court, used in legal documents etc and was the language of educated people in Scotland, used by poets and dramatists like Dunbar, Henryson and Sir David Lyndsey. It would have been no truer to say that it was a dialect of the English used at the English court than it would have been to say that English was a dialect of Scots.

― frankiemachine, Friday, 29 July 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

Yes, all that is true. But why the but? Let them!

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

(The source of that quote is Yiddish linguist Max Weinreich, who said, "A shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un a flot")

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

I talk a load of old shite. Is that a language or a dialect?

― KeefW (kmw), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

Cock is a language. A load of old shite is a dialect of it.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

Alba: Because language can be used to forge an ethnic identity and lead to separatism and rivalry. Of course, if you refuse to let groups speak their own language then that's the best way to make them all militant about it and want to bomb you. So, politically it's a good idea to allow people to speak however they like.

x-post: Saying that Scots is a dialect of English kind of sounds like "well English was here first and the Scots just starting speaking it all weird". Of course, I don't think that.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 July 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

Because language can be used to forge an ethnic identity and lead to separatism and rivalry

Yes. Reading Tore Janson's book about language Speak, one of the things that struck me was how important this aspect is, how when nation/empire building, stamping out regional dialects/languages in a draconian way often does achieve its aim, even in the long-term. Without it, countries do fail to gel as nations. I often get all confused about where my sympathies lie when it comes to nationalism.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I need to read some books. I am going to put that one on my Amazon wishlist.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 July 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

I'll lend you it!

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

Switzerland has gelled pretty effectively!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 29 July 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

There's always Switzerland.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 29 July 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Ooh, even better. Thanks Alba.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 July 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

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