Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

Also while I thought the Beacon show was good I didn't like it as much as some of his earlier shows though I'd have to watch it again to pinpoint exactly why.

what was this cringe inducing moment

I'm not even sure if it's that episode and can't remember the exact circumstances (been a while since I saw it) but it's the one where the ep ends with him jerking off in his living room. It was really uncomfortable to watch. Is that the fantasy one?

For some reason I think that it was.

I have been watching s1 w/ the gf and there are def maybe too many cringe moments (esp for her)

so wait, are people objecting to CK's characterizing of male fantasies as exceptionally gross, or his own depicted fantasies on Louie *being* too gross?

I don't think he should even attempt to write dialogue for female characters

E, yeah, that's the episode.

I don't think he should even attempt to write dialogue for female characters

― iatee, Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:34 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

definitely felt this way from time to time when watching the show. pamela adlon is so great, though, she brings a lot to her role. i don't want to spoil you with specifics!

x-post - See, I remember other parts of that ep really clearly but not exactly what happens in that final scene. I do remember, however, feeling really uncomfortable and gross after watching it and just thinking "Man, I really didn't need to see that".

so far the most awkward thing has been the 'create dumb woman who talks during his standup show, make fun of her, then give himself ten more minutes to explain why she is a horrible person'

and then end it with 'oh but he coulda slept with her too'

characters who aren't "Louie" are generally there for him to react to, be they male or female.

I actually agree w/ the heckler thing being over-the-top and a little unpleasant, but other than that I don't object to much on the show in general. (although it's not meant to be "oh but he could have slept with her," it's, "yeah, she really ticked me off, but who am I kidding, I'd still go for it given the chance.")

I thought the jerking off in the living room was great. Doesn't he have NPR playing at the time?

I don't think he should even attempt to write dialogue for female characters

― iatee, Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:34 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i also think this is an epiphenomenon to some extent of the show's approach. like even though it thematizes Louie's intermittent desire to sympathetically inhabit others' POV it's ultimately about unflinchingly confronting his own failings/thought processes/whatever. it's not even trying to breathe life to other characters most of the time, because Louie experiences other people as opaque. and it makes no bones about it. sometimes that doesn't bother me at all but in the christian lady episode and the beautiful young black woman fantasy object episode from the first season it does. those are also episodes where the show resorts to some fairly broad stereotyping.

oh Simon H just said that more succinctly

black grocery store teller bit was the weakest segment of s1, but I think the exchanges w/ the xtian anti-masturbator were way better handled.

it's ultimately about unflinchingly confronting his own failings/thought processes/whatever. it's not even trying to breathe life to other characters most of the time, because Louie experiences other people as opaque.

OTM.

x-post - Yeah, I think so but there was something else, something bizarre about the circumstances that I can't remember, that made it almost unbearable for me. I'll watch it again and report back.

the exchanges w/ the xtian anti-masturbator were way better handled.

― Simon H., Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:46 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

maybe. because she seems so outside Louie's social frame of reference it feels kind of like a cheat that she turns out to be such a flat character.

also his standup bit in that episode is so puritanical! this is unrelated to the representation of female characters question; it just bothers me. one of the few times watching the show where i was like, ugh, enough with the self-loathing, it has gone too far!

Few times? I feel that way a lot while watching it.

I mean I still love it but he I feel like I want to slap him and tell him to snap out of it (w/ love, of course) at least once an ep!

the exchanges w/ the xtian anti-masturbator were way better handled.

― Simon H., Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:46 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

maybe. because she seems so outside Louie's social frame of reference it feels kind of like a cheat that she turns out to be such a flat character.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:50 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

also it seems to perform that thing i've sort of guiltily laughed at in other louis ck standup bits i've seen, where because a woman is very conventionally attractive, he imagines that that's what her interior life is all about, eliciting attraction in men.

xp i just mean, self-loathing is his whole thing and i love louis ck so mostly i'm all in. that episode though is like, why do you keep insisting sex is gross, dude!

The self-loathing aspect really doesn't bother me at all, maybe because it's so contrary (or at least distinct) to basically every other protagonist on TV; I'll be curious to see how s3 handles his increased exposure / success level since he's recently admitted he'd be a jerk not to acknowledge it (whether or not it extends to the show).

all that being said, s2 focusing more on the kids + career as opposed to sex was a welcome move.

x-post - I know you did. I just meant that his self-loathing is so OTT all the time that that didn't stand out for me as any more so than usual. I feel like the sex is gross thing comes up a lot. It's been a couple months since I've watched these though so I might not be remembering them well.

clearly the "sex is gross" stuff is a direct outgrowth of the self-loathing.

just to clarify i like and often identify with the general pattern of self loathing both in louis ck's standup and the show louie (i will never tire of his bits about eating, for example, even though for his sake i hope he is exaggerating the degree of psychic pain it causes him.) i suppose those bits suggest a point of view about the pleasure of eating that is not inconsistent with the point of view about the pleasure of sex that emerges from the masturbation episode, but it bothers me a lot more in the latter. maybe because it seems to dragoon women into playing a fixed role in his self-loathing.

AIRPORT CINNABON

for all time

I listened to it again recently. It's so so good.

I really liked the jerking-off scene, imo.

And I think he errs on the side of deliberately creating stereotypes because he wants us to show that he is the weak link, to show that he's base and absurb and whatever...I never feel like he's commenting on anything other than himself, most of the time. I dunno. I am probably out of my depth though.

Huh - maybe the jerking off thing was just me. idk.

no i think that is right, VG. i remain bothered by those two episodes, but, you know.

xp

x-post - Errr pls don't post that to the out of context thread. TIA.

haha <3

so far the most awkward thing has been the 'create dumb woman who talks during his standup show, make fun of her, then give himself ten more minutes to explain why she is a horrible person'

I thought it was a set up to the second half of the show, where Louie essentially does the same thing on the set of the movie by not respecting what everyone else was trying to accomplish. I thought the point of this episode was he that he's a hypocrite because he was lecturing this horrible woman on not respecting his craft and then he turns around and does the same thing.

I guess that makes sense? I was mostly distracted by OLD MATTHEW BRODERICK

SO OLD WTF

'someone robs the bodega' was kinda painfully formulaic

I liked Tarese (cashier ep) a lot because there was this contrast between his romantic oer-side-of-the-tracks romantic fantasy and the reality of actually attempting the courtship.

I don't think he should even attempt to write dialogue for female characters

― iatee, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 18:34 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

simon is otm here:
characters who aren't "Louie" are generally there for him to react to, be they male or female.

i feel like a broad judgement on female characters on the show fails because of pamela adlon, & because of his kids!, all of whom are strong enough to stop it being about specifically female characters but maybe peripheral characters. tbh the other female characters, to whom he's reacting, have usually been characters inserted to direct the plot - so it's the pta woman he's going to sleep with, or someone he has to get nervous before going to meet, etc. there's also that kind of half-surreal quality to women's dialogue in the show - the estate agent, the pta woman, the woman who picks him up after a show in her car in times square - like they emphasise louie's emotional immaturity or lack of ease by seeming to operate in a different register to him - more straightforward, or formal, or professional or w/e. so again it's about him, how he can't have a conversation with a cheerleader.

about the creepiness of his fantasies, btw, i remember a friend, who came down on the side of finding him sorta suspicious, saying she cracked up when a scene ended with him googling an actress when he was about to jack off; i don't have the requisite knowledge of '70s american tv actors to know who it was, but i think an actress from mash?, maybe? like it would be the perfect outdated, semi-nostalgic crutch for him to resort to fantasising about.

Yup, it was Loretta Swit.

SO HARSH!

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyd3ssz8Yd1qzraqfo1_500.png

classic example of missing the point

like that fatality was pretty fucking clearly not played for laughs

I laughed but ymmv apparently

his kids would be the major exception to any generalizing about weakness of female characters on the show, of course. they're great. pamela adlon's character is also great, but i think that's largely her excellent performance. i could go into more detail here but whatever. i am inclined not to care too much about this generally because again, the weakness of female characters seems like a subset of the general weakness of non-Louie characters and not really the point of the show. also because at least the Louie character/Louis C.K. himself seems like he genuinely likes women, which is more than i can say for many male protagonists of tv shows.

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2012/01/louis-ck-is-creating-a-sitcom-for-cbs.html